15:20:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:20:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-irc
15:20:57 <lisa> zakim, this will be  WAI_CogTF
15:20:57 <Zakim> ok, lisa
15:25:14 <lisa> agenda: this
15:25:15 <lisa> agenda+ next SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html, rewording https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/rewroded%20sc%203.html
15:25:17 <lisa> agenda+ how to fill in surveys for wcag
15:25:18 <lisa> agenda+ next meetings -can we set a new time?
15:25:20 <lisa> agenda+ review sc wording for help
15:25:22 <lisa> agenda+ Moving forward with the next Success criteria and with personlization
15:25:23 <lisa> agenda+ the supplement, moving forward
15:25:25 <lisa> 
15:25:26 <lisa> agenda+ be done
15:31:09 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
15:31:43 <kirkwood> Regrets today unable to attend
15:49:45 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
15:50:19 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #COGA
15:55:27 <lisa> john K i will be showing how to vote on wcag surveys. do you want me to review it on skype with you tomorow?
15:56:53 <kirkwood> That would be great. Sorry have a dr appointment now
15:58:01 <AWK> AWK has joined #coga
16:03:45 <lisa> scribe: JohnRochford
16:04:03 <lisa> zakim, next item
16:04:03 <Zakim> agendum 1. "next SC, and timelines show status table.sc status: https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/status.html, rewording
16:04:05 <Zakim> ... https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/rewroded%20sc%203.html" taken up [from lisa]
16:07:58 <lisa> zakim, next item
16:07:58 <Zakim> agendum 2. "how to fill in surveys for wcag" taken up [from lisa]
16:08:36 <JohnRochford> John and Mike will work on Accessible Authentication text this week, as quickly as possible.
16:09:57 <JohnRochford> Lisa: All should fill in the surveys .
16:12:01 <JohnRochford> John and Mike: We also don't fill out the surveys because we may not agree but don't want to vote against.
16:13:15 <JohnRochford> Michael: If people don't vote (no), there will be problems down the line.
16:14:07 <JohnRochford> Andrew: It's better to vote with comments, but also to vote without them.
16:14:12 <Pietro> Pietro has joined #coga
16:14:33 <Pietro> Present+ Pietro
16:15:13 <lisa> can you here us pietro?
16:15:17 <lisa> hear us?
16:15:19 <Pietro> I hear
16:15:21 <EA> EA has joined #coga
16:15:40 <JohnRochford> John: To address Lisa's and Andrew's questions, says that one of his concerns, not the primary, is that SC don't go far enough to address user needs.
16:15:49 <Pietro> yes, I voted sometimes
16:16:18 <JohnRochford> Andrew: Please don't use the term "voting".
16:17:13 <AWK> Andrew: We aren't voting per se, just collecting feedback for the group to read/react to
16:17:35 <Pietro> My problem is not the process but the time to study topics
16:17:36 <JohnRochford> Lisa: I want to be sure everyone is not having any technical trouble with completing surveys.
16:18:49 <Jan> Jan has joined #coga
16:18:56 <JohnRochford> Jan: I don't have technical trouble. My problem is that I'm not sure my understanding is as good as W3C long-time participants.
16:19:03 <Jan> present+ JanMcSorley
16:19:13 <JohnRochford> present+ JohnRochford
16:19:18 <AWK> +AWK
16:19:44 <lisa> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/COGA_help/
16:19:50 <lisa> ea can you here us?
16:20:51 <lisa> zakim, next item
16:20:51 <Zakim> agendum 3. "next meetings -can we set a new time?" taken up [from lisa]
16:20:56 <JohnRochford> Lisa: It's very relevant that we do vote (answer survey questions) and express any concerns.
16:21:22 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Is Wednesday a good day for everyone?
16:21:36 <JohnRochford> Jan: Thursdays better.
16:22:02 <JohnRochford> Lisa: How about same time on Thursday?
16:22:08 <EA> Sadly I am desperately trying to get sound and having no luck.  My headphone test on Webex is perfect and I can see you all talking but not nothing is coming out!
16:22:17 <Pietro> I cannot Wednesday, I can Thursday
16:22:28 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Will send Doodle poll.
16:22:53 <lisa> ation: lisa make poll for new time
16:23:08 <lisa> action: lisa make poll for new time
16:23:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-216 - Make poll for new time [on Lisa Seeman-Kestenbaum - due 2017-06-12].
16:23:16 <lisa> sorry ea!
16:23:41 <lisa> can you press conect to audion?
16:23:46 <lisa> zakim, next item
16:23:46 <Zakim> agendum 4. "review sc wording for help" taken up [from lisa]
16:23:58 <EA> No worries I am reading... yes I have tried it!
16:24:06 <lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:24:59 <lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:25:02 <EA> I will try again ... no panic
16:25:27 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Before you respond to the survey about the help and support SC, I would like to know of any concerns with it.
16:26:09 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Example is that we addressed long blocks of text, and we can get more evidence for that.
16:26:49 <lisa>  Long  blocks of text:  are divide  with heading, keywords are visually emphasized or a summary is provided
16:26:51 <AWK> q+
16:27:13 <Mike_Pluke_> Mike_Pluke_ has joined #coga
16:28:15 <JohnRochford> AWK: I'm reading that long blocks of text can be addressed by *one* of the following.
16:28:42 <JohnRochford> AWK: Should we be bumping up the AAA SC that already exists to AA instead?
16:28:42 <AWK> ack AWK
16:29:21 <JohnRochford> Lisa: We were told we could not change existing SC.
16:29:40 <JohnRochford> AWK: You weren't told we could not change the level of SC.
16:30:25 <lisa>  Long  blocks of text:  are divide  with heading, keywords are visually emphasized or a summary is provided
16:30:27 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Describing problems with existing SC.
16:30:33 <AWK> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:30:36 <lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:31:29 <JohnRochford> Lisa: There were a few SC with overlap, but Jan's writing an email with the differences between them.
16:31:37 <Pietro> correct "are divide" into "they are divided"
16:33:39 <JohnRochford> EA: Some European nations have guidelines / requirements for some explicit way to simplify complex text.
16:34:42 <lisa> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2017Jun/0009.html
16:34:52 <lisa> http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bitv_2_0/anlage_2.html
16:34:58 <JohnRochford> Jan: We are going to get pushback on what's a long doc, which is why we are focusing on long text.
16:35:40 <JohnRochford> Lisa: We could not find a definition people could live with for long docs.
16:36:16 <lisa> https://www.lingulab.de/content/barrierefreiheit-bitv-wcag/barrierefreiheit-bitv/
16:36:36 <JohnRochford> Mike: This would be especially useful for supplemantary information.
16:37:58 <JohnRochford> Lisa: People could see a summary of sorts from headings, which are described elsewhere in the WCAG.
16:38:59 <JohnRochford> Lisa: We are saying for numerical content, that we can do any of these things (headings, summaries, etc.)
16:39:29 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Should there be an exception for single digits / real numbers.
16:40:15 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Example - numerical content beyond real numbers
16:40:48 <JohnRochford> Jan: We should not need an alternative unless there is a need to manipulate the numbers.
16:41:57 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Jan, would you draft that exception?
16:42:03 <JohnRochford> Jan: Yes.
16:42:38 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Does anyone have any objections to the whole SC?
16:43:37 <JohnRochford> AWK: There's no organizing connections amongst the 3 parts. How could this be tweaked to make sense for more people?
16:44:36 <lisa> q+
16:45:10 <JohnRochford> Jan: Concern is about the cognitive load. I agree we could change the one statement at the beginning, and providing a little more explanation.
16:46:30 <JohnRochford> AWK: If we are talking about nonstandard controls not having instructions, for example, there may be no dependency on a term such as long document.
16:46:44 <lisa> q?
16:47:36 <JohnRochford> AWK: If this should be separated out maybe it could be separate SC.
16:49:37 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Possibly what we could do is that we could separate into different SC as long as doing so would not need a long timeline, such as 2 months.
16:50:28 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Should we take out "one or more of the following"?
16:56:40 <JohnRochford> EA: Why do we need to define "long document"?
16:57:01 <JohnRochford> Lisa: Because, for example, the SC needs to be testable.
16:57:44 <JohnRochford> Lisa: To EA, could we have a word count for each language?
16:58:31 <JohnRochford> Jan: We are going to have trouble finding a research base for that.
16:58:39 <JohnRochford> EA: Agrees with Jan.
16:59:40 <AWK> I'm starting a call at the top of the hour so need to drop
17:00:33 <JohnRochford> Have to go. Bye.
17:07:17 <lisa> •	Long  blocks of text  are divide  with heading, keywords are visually emphasized
17:07:19 <lisa> •	Long  blocks of text  have a summary is provided
18:59:07 <lisa> rrsagent, make logs public
18:59:08 <lisa>  rrsagent, create minutes
18:59:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-minutes.html lisa
18:59:46 <lisa> zakim, please part
18:59:46 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Pietro, JanMcSorley, JohnRochford, AWK
18:59:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
19:00:07 <lisa> rrsagent,  please part
19:00:07 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-actions.rdf :
19:00:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: lisa make poll for new time [1]
19:00:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/06/05-coga-irc#T16-23-08