Date: 22 May 2017
See also the Agenda and the IRC Log
Present: Jun Gamou, Ivan Herman, George Kerscher, Dave Cramer, Avneesh Singh, Charles, Tzviya Siegman, Leonard Rosenthol, Mateus Teixeira, Alan Stearns, Tim Cole, Bill Kasdorf, Romain Deltour, Peter Krautzberger, Chris Maden, Garth Conboy, Brady Duga, Vladimir Levantovsky
Regrets: Luc Audrain, Laurent Le Meurs, Heather Flanagan, Daniel Weck
Guests:
Chair: Tzviya Siegman
Scribe(s): Leonard Rosenthol
George Kerscher: Hello folks
Garth Conboy: present +Garth
Mateus Teixeira: mteixeira-wwn has joined #dpub
Jun: been interested since EPUB 3 added Japanese support, esp. vertical writing
Jun: hopes that there will be more vertical stuff in future versions
Chris Maden: U Chicago, U Illinois—what’s the difference?
Tzviya Siegman: https://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-dpub-minutes.html
Ivan Herman: Good news: voting is over. 53 answers (high #). All agree that we should do it and in favor of charter
… It's not always like this - so we should be happy
… However...there are a number(3) objections that we have to deal with...
… Beyond the technical work, there are lawyers involved :(
… They need to determine potential IPR issues up front from the charter
… All three are basically the same problem...
… Now the W3C staff enters the picture and are dealing with the issues/objections...
… And figuring out how to clarify the charter to rectify things
… Maybe tomorrow o the day after, there will be more discussions with those companies
… On next W3M meeting, there will prelim approval. Then we get to fix the charter and send out message to all voters to make sure they won't change their vote
… There may be new objections based new changes - but let's hope not
Ivan Herman: So that is where we are...just a few weeks away
George Kerscher: is the two week guess reasonable?
Ivan Herman: its pretty reasonable due to need to resend to voters (assuming that this week they resolve the issues with objections)
Alan Stearns: when charter is resent, I assume it goes to this group first?
Ivan Herman: yes, it will
Garth Conboy: edits from @ivan and @tzviya are really clarifications and minor.
… does not want to be stunned from new issues
Tzviya Siegman: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/2017-05_review/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html
Tzviya Siegman: dpub aam is in a good place (2 full implementation)'
… they still need testing, esp. Windows 10
… anyone with such a machine - please help!
… they will hold you hand....
Tzviya Siegman: can't test JAWS, but instead test MSAA..
… (Which is strange that you can;'t use AT to test AT APIs)
George Kerscher: I am happy to help or will find someone
Peter Krautzberger: I'm happy to help as well.
Charles LaPierre: I'd do it but only have Win7
Romain Deltour: happy to help too if needed
Tzviya Siegman: will work with the folks who just spoke up, thank you!
Tzviya Siegman: dpub-aria revised exit criteria out for vote. Testing finishing. Talking to publishers
Charles LaPierre: Can you fwd these emails to this group?
Tzviya Siegman: publications should hopefully be soon
Ivan Herman: help me understand...dpub-aria testing done?
Tzviya Siegman: yes
Tzviya Siegman: but now looking at API issues
Ivan Herman: so then proposed rec before vacations?
Tzviya Siegman: yes!
Ivan Herman: by sept?
Tzviya Siegman: we hope so for Sept
Tzviya Siegman: something to announce at TPAC..
Tzviya Siegman: more things from ARIA...
Tzviya Siegman: https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/
Tzviya Siegman: there is a cognitive task force about personalization semantics. A meeting coming soon (Wed at noon eastern)
Tzviya Siegman: anyone interested should join, since we have talked about it from time to time...
… since we are concerned about how it will impact fancy layouts vs. personal desires
Ivan Herman: this is for personalization in general?
Tzviya Siegman: not sure how far it goes, but have looked at some things like fonts, etc.
George Kerscher: it feels like personalization may be related to other ongoing work
Tzviya Siegman: perhaps you should come and talk about your work with clapierre
Tzviya Siegman: don't worry, its just starting - lots more to do
Avneesh Singh: starting from background. Objectives - 1) linking or pointing to desc with existing tech (rather than using new stuff). 2) update DIAGRAM image desc sample book to use the spec from 1 and encourage AT developer to support aria-details. 3) contribute this tech to ARIA best practices.
Avneesh Singh: https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Publisher_requirements_for_extended_descriptions
Avneesh Singh: one hot topic disc. What if the publisher wants to provide pixel perfect page?
… buttons need to be integrated without impacting users needing AT
Tzviya Siegman: See https://github.com/w3c/html/issues/561 for info on details/summary with CSS
Avneesh Singh: But it's not just about AT users, but there are users who may not use AT e.g. people with low vision and cognitive disabilities. People with low vision need good contrast and people with cognitive disabilities need distinct expandable buttons to recognize. So, faded button for expanding details would not work.
Tzviya Siegman: see https://rawgit.com/daisy/aria-details/master/index.html for work DAISY is doing on extended descriptions
Avneesh Singh: Need something on the screen also in the browsers
George Kerscher: George: these aria-details can be added to any element. aria-details points to an ID on the page (most naturally to a <details> element) where the ext desc is placed. Most natural way is to place summary/details just below the element to describe.
… pretty straightforward identifying semantics,
… but we don't want it to disrupt the visual experience.
… Long term, AT should recognize this and "do the right thing"
… One One way to avoid disruptive experience is to place summary/details at end of the chapter, and aria-details will point to it.
George Kerscher: but until that is supported, there needs to be a link there (and back)...
… We have example in the wiki
Tzviya Siegman: anything you need from this group?
Avneesh Singh: doing POC now, once that is ready we will need folks to provide feedback on whether they can actually use it and what users will be impacted
Avneesh Singh: we have gotten permission to add it to aria specs/authoring practices
Tzviya Siegman: reminder we are at Adobe in June 22 & 23. Check the email for links for details incl. planning doc/agenda...
Ivan Herman: preliminary agenda: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J0VlZbMFj-33tfhZe0EK543NWFlx6dyDHauqkPwMeEI/edit
Tzviya Siegman: . and add name to RSVP list!
George Kerscher: Where is the sign up list?
Ivan Herman: one item related to charter complication...because the WG doesn't exist yet, we have to clarify for F2F. This meeting is joint meeting of IG and Biz...
Avneesh Singh: aria-details samples on which we are working: https://rawgit.com/daisy/aria-details/master/index.html
Ivan Herman: by defining it this way, people from Biz can join the F2F without problems. This is how we should announce it.
Ivan Herman: its all just administrative but by the time we are in NYC, it shouldn't matter as the WG will be formed. (And next F2F will be at TPAC)
Ivan Herman: bottom line: ATTEND!
Tzviya Siegman: lots of the meeting will be figuring out how the group will work...
… will be sure to include some other interesting topics like dauwhe and leonardr
Garth Conboy: security + manifests will take the whole time (and then some!)
George Kerscher: Will we be working with EPUB CG issues?
Ivan Herman: no, we will not.
Ivan Herman: there is a separate group for the EPUB CG
Dave Cramer: leonardr: On security stuff, I can present on some areas we've been investigating
Dave Cramer: ... on publications and packaged web publicatins
Ivan Herman: apple issues that came up should fall into that. (Yup!)
Tzviya Siegman: working to nail down the agenda in the next few days/weeks
Tzviya Siegman: any other business?
Garth Conboy: skip next week?
Tzviya Siegman: yes!
Tzviya Siegman: anything else?
Ivan Herman: end of the month
… Vote early, vote often...
Peter Krautzberger: sorry for dropping out for a bit -- my laptop crashed :(
Tzviya Siegman: adjourned