15:34:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:34:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/22-dpub-irc
15:34:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:34:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
15:34:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:34:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:34:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:34:29 <trackbot> Date: 22 May 2017
15:35:10 <ivan> ivan has joined #dpub
15:35:20 <ivan> trackbot, start telcon
15:35:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:35:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:35:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:35:26 <trackbot> Date: 22 May 2017
15:35:26 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:35:33 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
15:36:21 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2017May/0032.html
15:36:31 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda 2017-05-22: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2017May/0032.html
15:36:49 <ivan> Regrets: Luc, Laurent
15:46:41 <George> George has joined #dpub
15:47:08 <George> Hello folks
15:49:44 <gamou> gamou has joined #dpub
15:49:45 <gamou> present+
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15:56:04 <ivan> Present+
15:56:08 <ivan> present+ George
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15:56:41 <George> present+ George
15:56:41 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
15:56:47 <ivan> present+ avneesh
15:56:50 <clapierre> present+ Charles
15:57:07 <Avneesh> present+ Avneesh
15:57:12 <garth> garth has joined #dpub
15:57:30 <tzviya> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2017May/0030.html
15:57:43 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya
15:57:48 <leonardr> Present+ Leonard
15:58:07 <garth> present +Garth
15:58:30 <timCole> timCole has joined #dpub
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16:00:33 <mteixeira-wwn> mteixeira-wwn has joined #dpub
16:00:53 <mteixeira-wwn> present+ mateus-teixeira
16:01:44 <astearns> present+
16:02:08 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:02:15 <timCole> present+ timCole
16:02:18 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
16:02:26 <tzviya> scribenick: Leonard
16:02:34 <rdeltour> present+
16:02:57 <ivan> scribenick: leonardr
16:03:09 <leonardr> @tzvifya kicks off the welcome
16:03:10 <ivan> Topic: new person Jun Gamou
16:03:16 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
16:03:26 <pkra> present+ pkra
16:03:34 <cmaden2> cmaden2 has joined #dpub
16:03:35 <leonardr> Jun: been interested since EPUB 3 added Japanese support, esp.  vertical writing
16:03:47 <leonardr> Jun: hopes that there will be more vertical stuff in future versions
16:04:00 <cmaden2> present+ Chris_Maden
16:04:08 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
16:04:34 <ivan> present+ Garth
16:04:35 <duga> duga has joined #dpub
16:04:35 <cmaden2> U Chicago, U Illinois—what’s the difference?
16:04:39 <leonardr> Jodi is from UIUC - big difference for us Illini!
16:04:45 <ivan> present+ brady
16:04:49 <duga> present+ duga
16:05:08 <leonardr> Tim let us know that Jodi will join in the future...
16:05:32 <leonardr> Comments?
16:05:32 <ivan> Topic: minutes
16:05:22 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-dpub-minutes.html
16:05:38 <leonardr> Minutes approved
16:05:45 <ivan> Topic: charter status
16:06:12 <leonardr> Ivan gets "elected" to comment on status
16:06:45 <leonardr> Ivan: Good news: voting is over.  53 answers (high #).  All agree that we should do it and in favor of charter
16:07:12 <leonardr> ... It's not always like this - so we should be happy
16:07:25 <leonardr> ... However...there are a number(3) objections that we have to deal with...
16:07:44 <leonardr> ... Beyond the technical work, there are lawyers involved :(
16:08:10 <leonardr> ... They need to determine potential IPR issues up front from the charter
16:08:43 <leonardr> ... All three are basically the same problem...
16:09:15 <leonardr> ... Now the W3C staff enters the picture and are dealing with the issues/objections...
16:09:36 <leonardr> ... And figuring out how to clarify the charter to rectify things
16:09:57 <leonardr> ... Maybe tomorrow o the day after, there will be more discussions with those companies
16:10:32 <leonardr> ... On next W3M meeting, there will prelim approval.  Then we get to fix the charter and send out message to all voters to make sure they won't change their vote
16:10:53 <leonardr> ... There may be new objections based new changes - but let's hope not
16:11:11 <leonardr> @ivan is taking optimist pills (that he got from Garth)
16:11:27 <leonardr> ivan: So that is where we are...just a few weeks away
16:12:05 <leonardr> George: is the two week guess reasonable?
16:12:42 <leonardr> ivan: its pretty reasonable due to need to resend to voters (assuming that this week they resolve the issues with objections)
16:12:43 <astearns> q+
16:13:04 <tzviya> ack as
16:13:25 <leonardr> astearns: when charter is resent, I assume it goes to this group first?
16:13:29 <leonardr> ivan: yes, it will
16:14:12 <leonardr> garth: edits from @ivan and @tzviya are really clarifications and minor.
16:14:23 <leonardr> ... does not want to be stunned from new issues
16:14:49 <leonardr> Topic: work updates
16:15:03 <ivan> Subtopic: ARIA work
16:15:49 <tzviya> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/2017-05_review/dpub-aam/dpub-aam.html
16:16:16 <leonardr> Tzviya: dpub aam is in a good place (2 full implementation)'
16:16:28 <leonardr> ... they still need testing, esp. Windows 10
16:16:42 <leonardr> ... anyone with such a machine - please help!
16:16:57 <leonardr> ... they will hold you hand....
16:17:12 <leonardr> No volunteers
16:17:51 <leonardr> Tzviya: can't test JAWS, but instead test MSAA..
16:18:16 <leonardr> ... (Which is strange that you can;'t use AT to test AT APIs)
16:18:29 <leonardr> George: I am happy to help or will find someone
16:18:34 <clapierre> q+
16:18:38 <pkra> I'm happy to help as well.
16:18:38 <tzviya> ack cl
16:18:52 <leonardr> Clapierre: I'd do it but only have Win7
16:19:03 <rdeltour> happy to help too if needed
16:19:11 <leonardr> tzviya: will work with the folks who just spoke up, thank you!
16:19:32 <ivan> q+
16:19:52 <leonardr> Tzviya: dpub-aria revised exit criteria out for vote.  Testing finishing.  Talking to publishers
16:20:03 <clapierre> Can you fwd these emails to this group?
16:20:03 <leonardr> tzviya: publications should hopefully be soon
16:20:05 <tzviya> ack iv
16:20:22 <leonardr> Ivan: help me understand...dpub-aria testing done?
16:20:27 <leonardr> Tzviya: yes
16:20:38 <leonardr> Tzviya: but now looking at API issues
16:20:47 <leonardr> Ivan: so then proposed rec before vacations?
16:20:50 <leonardr> tzviya:yes!
16:20:57 <leonardr> Ivan: by sept?
16:21:06 <leonardr> Tzviya: we hope so for Sept
16:21:24 <leonardr> Tzviya: something to announce at TPAC..
16:21:42 <leonardr> Tzviya: more things from ARIA...
16:21:52 <ivan> Subtopic: cognitive understanding
16:21:49 <tzviya> https://w3c.github.io/personalization-semantics/
16:22:17 <leonardr> Tzviya: there is a cognitive task force about personalization semantics.  A meeting coming soon (Wed at noon eastern)
16:22:41 <leonardr> Tzviya: anyone interested should join, since we have talked about it from time to time...
16:23:10 <leonardr> They look a lot like dpub-aria, but different vocab.  Interesting to see how this plays out in the real world...
16:23:32 <ivan> q+
16:23:33 <leonardr> ...since we are concerned about how it will impact fancy layouts vs. personal desires
16:23:38 <tzviya> ack iv
16:23:55 <leonardr> Ivan: this is for personalization in general?
16:24:13 <leonardr> Tzviya: not sure how far it goes, but have looked at some things like fonts, etc.
16:24:52 <dauwhe> q?
16:25:37 <leonardr> George: it feels like personalization may be related to other ongoing work
16:25:54 <leonardr> Tzviya: perhaps you should come and talk about your work with clapierre
16:25:56 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:25:56 <Zakim> Present: ivan, George, dauwhe, avneesh, Charles, Tzviya, Leonard, mateus-teixeira, astearns, timCole, Bill_Kasdorf, rdeltour, Peter, Krautzberger, Chris_Maden, Garth, brady, duga
16:26:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see duga, Vlad, cmaden2, pkra, Bill_Kasdorf, mteixeira-wwn, rdeltour, timCole, garth, clapierre, leonardr, Avneesh, gamou, George, ivan, Zakim, RRSAgent, dauwhe, tzviya,
16:26:00 <Zakim> ... rego_, Karen, plinss, TravisMcCrea, liam, iank_, astearns, Bert, trackbot, bigbluehat, JakeA
16:26:21 <leonardr> Tzviya: don't worry, its just starting - lots more to do
16:26:28 <tzviya> q?
16:26:40 <leonardr> Topic: extended descriptions
16:26:41 <Avneesh> q+
16:26:45 <tzviya> ack av
16:27:32 <ivan> present+ vlad
16:27:59 <leonardr> avneesh: starting from background.  Objectives - 1) linking or pointing to desc with existing tech (rather than using new stuff). 2) update DIAGRAM image desc sample book   to use the spec from 1 and encourage AT developer to support aria-details. 3) contribute this tech to ARIA best practices.
16:28:03 <Avneesh> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Publisher_requirements_for_extended_descriptions
16:28:46 <leonardr> Avneesh: one hot topic disc.   What if the publisher wants to provide pixel perfect page?
16:29:16 <leonardr> ... buttons need to be integrated without impacting users needing AT
16:29:24 <tzviya> See https://github.com/w3c/html/issues/561 for info on details/summary with CSS
16:29:50 <leonardr> ... But it's not just about AT users, but there are users who may not use AT e.g. people with low vision and cognitive disabilities. People with low vision need good contrast and people with cognitive disabilities need distinct expandable buttons to recognize. So, faded button for expanding details would not work.
16:29:58 <tzviya> see https://rawgit.com/daisy/aria-details/master/index.html for work DAISY is doing on extended descriptions
16:30:11 <leonardr> ... Need something on the screen also in the browsers
16:30:50 <leonardr> George: George: these aria-details can be added to any element. aria-details points to an ID on the page (most naturally to a "details" element) where the ext desc is placed. Most natural way is to place summary/details just below the element to describe.
16:32:00 <leonardr> ... pretty straightforward identifying semantics,
16:32:01 <leonardr> ... but we don't want it to disrupt the visual experience.
16:32:02 <leonardr> ... Long term, AT should recognize this and "do the right thing"
16:32:03 <leonardr> ... One One way to avoid disruptive experience is to place summary/details at end of the chapter, and aria-details will point to it.
16:32:23 <leonardr> George: but until that is supported, there needs to be a link there (and back)...
16:32:37 <leonardr> ... We have example in the wiki
16:32:50 <leonardr> tzviya: anything you need from this group?
16:33:21 <leonardr> Avneesh: doing POC now, once that is ready we will need folks to provide feedback on whether they can actually use it and what users will be impacted
16:33:32 <ivan> Regrets+ Heather
16:33:42 <ivan> regrets+ Daniel_Weck
16:33:47 <leonardr> Avneesh: we have gotten permission to add it to aria specs/authoring practices
16:33:52 <tzviya> q?
16:34:05 <leonardr> Topic: face to face
16:34:22 <tzviya>  https://www.google.com/maps/place/1540+Broadway,+New+York,+NY+10036/@40.7575933,-73.9875012,17z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c25855a6e1d89b:0x23970bebb1d60849!8m2!3d40.7580769!4d-73.9848083
16:34:36 <leonardr> Tzviya: reminder we are at Adobe in June 22 & 23.  Check the email for links for details incl. planning doc/agenda...
16:34:36 <ivan> preliminary agenda: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J0VlZbMFj-33tfhZe0EK543NWFlx6dyDHauqkPwMeEI/edit
16:34:38 <ivan> q+
16:34:45 <leonardr> .... and add name to RSVP list!
16:34:50 <tzviya> ack iv
16:35:18 <George> Q+
16:35:19 <George> Where is the sign up list?
16:35:42 <leonardr> Ivan: one item related to charter complication...because the WG doesn't exist yet, we have to clarify for F2F.  This meeting is joint meeting of IG and Biz...
16:35:56 <George> q-
16:36:02 <Avneesh> aria-details samples on which we are working: https://rawgit.com/daisy/aria-details/master/index.html
16:36:22 <leonardr> ...by defining it this way, people from Biz can join the F2F without problems.  This is how we should announce it.
16:36:59 <leonardr> Ivan: its all just administrative but by the time we are in NYC, it shouldn't matter as the WG will be formed.  (And next F2F will be at TPAC)
16:37:09 <leonardr> Ivan: bottom line: ATTEND!
16:37:43 <leonardr> Tzviya: lots of the meeting will be figuring out how the group will work...
16:38:04 <leonardr> ...will be sure to include some other interesting topics like dauwhe and leonardr
16:38:33 <leonardr> Garth: security + manifests will take the whole time (and then some!)
16:38:36 <George> Will we be working with EPUB CG issues?
16:38:41 <leonardr> Q+
16:39:01 <leonardr> Ivan: no, we will not.
16:39:22 <leonardr> Ivan: there is a separate group for the EPUB CG
16:39:24 <tzviya> ack le
16:39:51 <dauwhe> leonardr: On security stuff, I can present on some areas we've been investigating
16:40:03 <dauwhe> ... on publications and packaged web publicatins
16:40:27 <leonardr> Ivan: apple issues that came up should fall into that. (Yup!)
16:40:42 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
16:40:45 <leonardr> Tzviya: working to nail down the agenda in the next few days/weeks
16:40:53 <ivan> topic: AOB
16:40:56 <leonardr> Tzviya: any other business?
16:41:12 <leonardr> Garth: skip next week?
16:41:15 <leonardr> Tzviya: yes!
16:41:29 <leonardr> Tzviya: anything else?
16:41:54 <leonardr> When is vote over?
16:42:02 <leonardr> Ivan: end of the month
16:42:16 <leonardr> ... Vote early, vote often...
16:43:06 <leonardr> (Gossiping goes here...read the mailing list...)
16:43:14 <pkra> sorry for dropping out for a bit -- my laptop crashed :(
16:43:43 <leonardr> tzviya: adjourned
16:44:45 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:44:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/22-dpub-minutes.html ivan
16:45:01 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:45:01 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:45:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ivan, George, dauwhe, avneesh, Charles, Tzviya, Leonard, mateus-teixeira, astearns, timCole, Bill_Kasdorf, rdeltour, Peter, Krautzberger,
16:45:04 <Zakim> ... Chris_Maden, Garth, brady, duga, Jun_Gamou, vlad
16:45:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:45:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/22-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
16:45:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:45:10 <RRSAgent> I see no action items