Web Accessibility Policies

Brent: Goal is to get a minimum viable product out in time for AccessU which is just a week and a half away, will turn it over to Robert and MaryJo

<rjolly> Prototype: https://w3c.github.io/wai-policies-prototype/

<rjolly> Open Issues for Policies Prototype: https://github.com/w3c/wai-policies-prototype/issues

Robert: Will share my screen and here is the link
... The GitHub page of open issues. Have closed 63 issues, 7 remain and are associated with milestones.

<yatil> Open issues for the MVP launch: https://github.com/w3c/wai-policies-prototype/milestone/4

Robert: tab next to labels button will show the milestones. We are focused on the issues associated with the launch of the MVP. MaryJo has been adding and editing the country data to make sure it is current and consistent. Another open issue is how to indicate when a link goes to information in another language?

Brent: Shall we address that question here - What do people think? Then we can do an overview of how the filters work.

Eric: It would be useful to have the correct language on the link but since most will go to other languages, maybe we can put a general comment in the intro and let people know it is likely to go to another language page.

Eric: may not be necessary to put on each link.

<yatil> Sharron: I think people are not really surprised that policies are in the language of the country that maintains the policy.

Robert: We do not have all the data on the main page underneath the table, have it on each country page. May want to link from the name of the document in its native language rather than the English name of the document.

Brent: How is the German page coded?

Eric: There is the english title with the en tag and there is an option to add to the native language if needed. In that case, each is designated by putting a span around the text and adding lang attribute.
... we would have to add another tag to say this is the language we are linking to and could use CSS to style it differently, add icon or text.
... it is not difficult, actually pretty straightforward. Just need to decide if we want to add the clutter, etc.

Howard: I would leave it as is - English for the link and native language in parens.

<yatil> +1 to Howard

<rjolly> Comments and contributions on the language of destination link can always be added in GitHub Issue #35 here: https://github.com/w3c/wai-policies-prototype/issues/35

Howard: Having the link text remain in English and leaving the native language in parenthesis will cue people to expect and would be a good transition.

<yatil> https://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-link-lang-data/sv

Brent: So the options are to leave as is - link for the English with the native lang in parenthesis. Another option is the method Eric just described.

Robert: So the question is whether it will be confusing to people to the extent that we need to address it now or can we wait as part of the post-launch cleanup?

Eric: So do we want to move this to the post-launch list?

Sharron: I would support that.

<Howard> +1 to address post launch

Eric: Add a sentence somewhere that says links may lead to a resource in other languages.

<Howard> yes

RESOLUTION: Link text will be the English title of the external document The native language title will appear in unlinked parentheses. A note that links may go to other languages will be presented in the introductory text. The issue will be revisited after launch.

Brent: Want to look at how filters work, Robert?

Robert: Moved the terms, seriously tersified the intro, and introduced filters in three categories.
... dynamically driven by the information in the table.

p class='phone'>Robert: filters may be easily cleared and revert to the full table. Have retained the expand/collapse for the table itself. Now that country data has been moved, it seems extraneous to collapse it since it is the only content on the page.

<yatil> +1 to remove the expand/collapse

<Brent> +1 to remove the exp/coll altogether for the "Law & Policy Overview Table"

RESOLUTION: Remove expand/collapse feature of the Policies Table

Robert: Submission form to update or create country data is linked from every page. Ready to go, no issues.

Eric: Need to work a bit on intro text, we do not send emails but instead submissions become GitHub issues.

Eric: there is an email confirmation of submission sent when someone submits the form. It includes a link to the GitHub issue so the submitter can track it.

Robert: Who is the contact person on this?

Eric: Probably me or Shawn, will confirm.

Robert: Please do feel free to look at this and submit any issues or add country data.

Brent: Can we ask people to do a submisson just as a test?

Robert: Yes, that could be helpful although I don't expect we will find any issues but would be useful.
... I did ask Sylvie to use different screen readers and she has found no issues. Some variation between screen readers but no barriers to use with screen readers overall.

MaryJo: Are we going to survey the entire resource for launch?

Brent: If you have enough direction to close out all issues for the MVP we can publish that and take it to AccessU.

Robert: Can implement the resolutions this morning and can add to the survey today.

Sharron:This is a tremendous resource y'all. Thanks for all the work in building and thinking through its use. Great job!

<krisannekinney> +1 on the great job. Its amazing.

<lkee> +1

Caleb: We will defintely be using this at work - great job!

<Norah> +1

Judy: This is a great thing to see after so many years of people asking for an updated resource.

Brent: Noticed that current resource is called one thing and the prototype is another. Which is correct?

MaryJo: Policies are not necessarily laws, they are intent. Policies are guidance for creating law. I had advice from a collegue that they are distinct and should be referenced as such.

Judy: Thank you for raising the issue of names, we had extensive discussions years ago related to this. There is a variety in the interpretation. Countries and languages may be differently interpreted. How many are laws?

MaryJo: Quite a few and the number is growing.

Brent: Is there an objection to adding "laws" into the titles

<rjolly> I have no objection to the name containing Laws & Policies

<Howard> no objection here

Brent: And how do we feel about the frontloading of "Policies" before/after "Web Accessibility"?
... 1. Web Accessibility laws and Policies

<Brent> 1) Web Accessibility Laws & Policies

<Brent> 2)Laws & Policies Relating to Web Accessibility

<Howard> 2

<lkee> 2

<Caleb> 1

<rjolly> 1.

<maryjom> 1

<Norah> 1

<Judy> 2

<krisannekinney> 2

Sharron: no preference, either on

<Brent> 2

<yatil> 3

Brent: I think the second on is also more accurate as well.

Judy: If people look specifically for laws about web accessibility they may be embedded in something else. "related to" means that will be captured.

<Caleb> (I can go either way as well)

Eric: A friendlier version may be Laws and Policies for an Accessible Web.

<yatil> 51% for 2/49% for 1

<Howard> are we going to do a survey on the name?

RESOLUTION: The title of the resource has been changed to Web Accessibility Laws & Policies

Robert: Want to officially thank Eric for making this so much easier.

MaryJo: and to both you guys for all you did to realize this vision - thank you!

All: Bravo and thanks

New - Media Tutorial

Judy: Appreciate all the comments from EO on the Accessible Media Tutorial. Geoff has integrated your comments and we will be noting the ones that are yet to be addressed. What he has done is adjust headers, footers, will see a more filled out verion. Thanks to Eric's help, those changes are now posted live.
... yet to be addressed is the need for a decision tree, one for when to use AD and one for synced captions vs transcripts. A missing page about sub titles (from outline) Since it is more situational by country - some multi-lingual countries routinely add subtiles - we want to add a discussion that distinguishes those.
... were talking recently about overall status and want use the next week to present a stablization draft and ask for review in a survey that will close before next friday's meeting and then an approval survey closely following that.
... are asking for review as well by the AGWG (formerly WCAG) since they are looking at the technical aspects of the tutorial. That is some of what is happening in the next two weeks so please be on alert, be prepared to review the stablization, look at how your comments have been addressed, and if you ahve not commented, the ship is sailing, so please make any comments now. After this week, the
... next one you will see is the approval draft.
... want to look at some things that may have been addressed but not yet closed and want to look at the active discussion of naming.

<Brent> Name issue #512: https://github.com/w3c/wai-tutorials/issues/512

Judy: Looking at the GitHUb issues on this resource, issue #512 there have been some comments relating to naming about this one as well as the others. On the two other ones, we did provisionally change the name. This one, on accessible media was determine to fit as a tutorial. As it has evolved however, there is less focus, less code, and the question has arisen of whether it still belongs in that
... category.
... I have defended the title as a tutorial in support of finding and using this resource more easily. Both Geoff and I have been adhering to the tutorial format and expect it to become even more so.

<Norah> Looking at other resources on WAI web site, looks to me like this fits under WAI Guidelines and Techniques, https://www.w3.org/WAI/guid-tech then post specific tutorials in tutorial section

<Norah> and essential components of web accessibilityhttps://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/components.php

Judy: I would like the resource to be part of the Tutorial library, it has had a very positive reaction in the field. While there may be changes in how things are grouped in the redesign, I want to take advantage of the growing awareness of the Tutorials as useful resources.

<Judy> [JB starts to highlight some notes for Geoff here]

Sharron: Judy your arguments make sense from a marketing POV.

<Judy> [JB Geoff let's look back through other tutes and look for ways to make it more similar]

<yatil> [Likes Norah's idea]

Norah: As someone who comes from a perspective searching resources looking for content would expect information that we need and that I have previously been looking for. Is this more of an overview that could be presented separately and then parts of it divided into specific tutorials.

Judy: I am trying to understand why this does not look as much like the other tutorials? I heard you say it does seem enough step by step to be a tutorial?

Norah: I feel like it should be in two places - Guidelines and Techniques with something like the WAI-ARIA overview and then pieced out into specific topics around accessible media.

Howard: I read it again last night, I just do not see it as a tutorial. Again there is not enough step by step information about how to implement. "How to..." caption using YouTube for example.

<Brent> +1 to Howard, The step by step is missing. More general information.

Judy: The step by step keeps coming up, so if we added that aspect it may be more aligned. But I am confused by being asked to be product specific since we were previously asked to remove that. The screen shots of what the work flow looked like in different products was asked to be removed.

Brent: Yes I remember that we asked Geoff not to use product specific examples.

<Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say that he's confused and to say not looking like a tutorial because information is very general, no clear path, very descriptive, detail oriented and to

Eric: The thing is to see what is the general work flow of the process rather than a product specific version. Editor was asked not to remove it but to generalize it. Don't see how we can be going into stablization version if we are still making changes that will make it more tutorial like. Those changes should be in place before we make the naming decision.

Judy: Only a few more changes needed this weekend to add decision tree, etc. We had no previous plan for adding the aspects to make it more tutorial like but hoping for guidance in this meeting.
... if we get confirmation, we can add those fairly quickly.

<Judy> [JB Geoff let's recheck it to see balance between background, vs practical how-to step-by-step guidance; and check focus on content creators vs developers]

Eric: The thing is that it does not look like a tutorial. It is ground work, understanding, background. What the other tutorials do is say here is the code, here are the steps, here are the test techniques to make media accessible now.
... if the tutorials are useful and widely adopted at this time as they are, watering them down will damage the "brand." As we restructure the IA we can provide the findability. Two resources - one for content creators and one for implementers - may be an answer but resources can be an issue in that apporach.

<Norah> for a tutorial, I would like to see how to create a timed text file possibly with open source resources, for example. Some very specific skills.

<Judy> [JB intent was that this should be a tutorial so am looking for guidance to make it more tutorial. And not enough resources to split it into two different documents]

Sharron: The point made about the implementation is very important. It is key to what makes a resource part of the "Tutorial" suite. Implementation instruction for developers. Add add more examples, add more code snippets, continue to shape more like tutorials. Why not maintain this as it is - the content is useful - and call it a Guide instead. Can later create smaller, more fucused Tutorials on how to "do" some of the things referenced in the Guide. I understand your persepctive Judy and the value of riding on the coat tails of the tutorial buzz. I am still torn and see the value in both types of resources. However, I am strongly drawn to Eric's comment about not confounding expectations of what developers think they will get with a Tutorial.

<Norah> Is it possible to have both? this overview information and specific tutorials on creating various caption file types?

Judy:Do we need to add more step-by-step with a clear path, e.g., all this info is nice but please also really give us the implementation walk-through. and to clarify , I am not sure there is enough resources to call this a "Guide" it may not be comprehensive enough. Rather, we have called it an "Intro" This may be different from those Intros and then we end up with three types of resources that provide instruction or guidance for implementation - confusing.

KrisAnne: Yes this is a wonderful resource, please don't remove information to make it "fit" into the category of tutorial. I don't have an answer to how to categorize it, maybe we can we turn it into a training?

Brent: To me this just does not seem like an introduction, it really is a "Guide". I like what Sharron said, let this be what it is, go with the flow of how it has developed. As we redesign, it could be a beginning of a way we approach people being able to find and use the specific thing they need. So here are Guides, and they lead to tutorials that are specific to a task or specific aspect of accessible media.

Howard: Concur with this input - Instead of trying to squeeze it into a space that it does not fit, let it continue as it is.

<Norah> does it fit here https://www.w3.org/WAI/train format seems similar to this resource: https://www.w3.org/WAI/users/browsing

Eric: One of our problems, that we have identified for the IA in the redesign, is the fact that we have created these buckets and we try to fit resources into those when perhaps they do not actually fit. Our hope and expectation is that the redesign will address this problem specifically and allow a more fluid approach to make it less rigidly defined, organizing all of the content to make it more easy to find and use

Judy: I understand the challenge that we are trying to match what EO needs now with our understanding of what it needed in the past when we secured external resources. It may be useful to see how the other two "Intro" docs are evolving and you may have additional thoughts about how they relate. I will discuss this with Geoff and will consider today's input.
... original plan was for 4 new tutorials - ARIA and mobile resources may be previewed next Friday or may see it at the Saturday 20 May session of the F2F. Have been discussion with the chairs.
... separately the updated Search, we are wiring in more documents with metadata, etc. Again, may be previwed soon. The Quick Tips management resource is being addressed by Robert and Denis, so I'm not pursuing that through this project; and separately I am addressing Procurement and maybe Advocacy. In working to update the BAD, we will modernize the interface. On its use as curriculum, thanks Howard for input.
... there seems to be a need for an integrated approach of how to use BAD for curriculum. Also will be previewed soon.

Face to Face

Brent: Have asked James to develop a detailed agenda for Friday's work on the redesign. Saturday agenda will be developed as well inlcuding what Judy has mentioned.
... watch for an approval survey on the Policies work, to get us to MVP as well as a survey for Judy's work with Geoff. Any additional comments, questions?
... thanks all,