<JohnRochford> present

<JohnRochford> Jim: Wayne is working to determine font width based upon Google and Adobe fonts, about 800.

Contrast Smith-Kettlewell

<allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017May/0020.html

<JohnRochford> Jim: Preceding URL is a proposal related to contrast sensitivity

<allanj> added to 2.4.3 in User needs

<allanj> *Contrast sensitivity decreases with age and is concomitant with many other vision diseases and conditions. Contrast levels should be the same for text, graphics, and controls.*

<JohnRochford> Jim: I'm proposing we add it to the user needs.

+1

<JohnRochford> +1

<allanj> proposed for Benefits of Issues 9 & 10

<allanj> *In short, contrast levels should be the same for text, graphics, and controls.*

<JohnRochford> +1

+1

<JohnRochford> Marla: Is that SC considering fill, not just borders?

<JohnRochford> Jim: Essentially, yes.

<JohnRochford> Jim, in response to question from steverep, says there are 4 base levels of contrast threshold, then there are another 3 steps before one can identify what's there.

<JohnRochford> Jim: 3 steps refer to contrast increases

RESOLUTION: WE WILL UPDATE ISSUES 9 & 10 WITH TEXT ABOVE

RESOLUTION: WE WILL UPDATE USER NEEDS 2.4.3 WITH TEXT ABOVE

Text adaptation user to content requirements https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Text_adaptation_user_to_content_requirements

<JohnRochford> allanj/Jim: I think we can flesh out a bit the content at the preceding URL.

<allanj> Allow for a 10% buffer on text size within a layout.

<allanj> Use foreground (HTML) image methods such as img / svg, or

<allanj> Fallback of: Identify background images that are content in a semantic way so they can be ignored by the user-agent changes.

<allanj> one that comes to mind - if you change foreground you must change background

<JohnRochford> allanj: another is only setting the foreground color and not setting the background cover

<allanj> transparency in graphics

<JohnRochford> steverep: what about the background color of a web page's affect on a graphic with a transparent background color?

<JohnRochford> effect, not affect

Stephen’s list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2017Apr/0131.html

<allanj> 1. The author uses sprite taken from the background image.

<allanj> 2. The author uses transparent images for controls that depend on the pages background color for visibility

<allanj> 3. Items that are hidden with color become visible

<allanj> 4. Embedded color declarations that use !important (css)

Users can override inline !important author CSS declarations. The thing is they have to do it at the same or higher specificity level, which necessitates users investigating an author's markup and carefully crafting rules to override it. Like sprites, I suspect an attempt to outlaw inline !important author CSS declarations would be met with harsh resistance.

<allanj> 5. Allow for a 10% buffer on text size within a layout. (allows for font family change, and spacing concerns)

<JohnRochford> Jim: Anything else?

#1 would go back to techniques and failures then for Info & Relationships and/or Name, Role, Value.

<allanj> 6. Use foreground (HTML) image methods such as img / svg, or Fallback of: Identify background images that are content in a semantic way so they can be ignored by the user-agent changes.

For #3 Is that not just a failure of Contrast (Minimum) per WCAG 2.0?

<allanj> steve: or a 1.4.1 failure

<JohnRochford> Jim: Do you think we could just do techniques for that, rather than creating new SC for it?

<JohnRochford> Jim: There is no visual means of hiding the information.

Items that are hidden with color become visible

<steverep> I mispoke saying 1.4.1 - I meant Contrast (Minimum)

<JohnRochford> Jim: Can be conflicts between low-vision users and those with cognitive issues

F24: Failure of Success Criterion 1.4.3, 1.4.6 and 1.4.8 due to specifying foreground colors without specifying background colors or vice versa: https://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20080430/failures.html#F24

<allanj> john: when a new window opens - use off screen text to say that. is that a failure?

<JohnRochford> Marla: Using font color to hide content is poor practice.

<JohnRochford> Marla: and lazy

<JohnRochford> Marla: Off screen content is usually a child of another element.

<JohnRochford> Jim: People on the list - do you create your own style sheets?

<JohnRochford> Scott: Essentially, no.

<JohnRochford> Steve: I used to do it, but not any more

<JohnRochford> John: Ditto

<JohnRochford> Jim: Is this that much of an issue that we need to keep beating on it?

<JohnRochford> Steve: Transparency is something we should pursue.

<JohnRochford> Steve: We should concentrate on stuff that breaks most of the time.

<JohnRochford> Laura: Should it be in the adapting text SC?

<JohnRochford> Jim: Happy to leave that SC be, and create a new SC, rather than alter an SC with which people are happy.

<allanj> wayne would say yes that Items that are hidden with color become visible is important.

<scribe> Scribe: Laura

<allanj> others on the call felt Items that are hidden with color become visible is less important. and should be a failure of other SC.

Steve: It is a failure of contrast minimum.

The author uses transparent images for controls that depend on the pages background color for visibility

Jim: is transparency a subset?

Steve: I don’t think so. It can't be a failure without graphics contrast being a failure.
... also takes in user interface controls.

Jim: windows 7 transparency caused issues for LV people
... How do we say it with an if/then statement

<allanj> transparency is not a binary

Steve: It is not a binary.
... author needs to consider the full space.

<allanj> transparency is a range from 0 to 1 (aka alpha channel)

Steve: come up this alpha channel min and max

<allanj> what is the minimum transparency needed for given test

Steve: Choose from the full range as long as you compute things correctly
... I can try to do that.

Jim: native video controls use a transparent background. Some can disappear.
... serious issue.

Scott: need an opacity layer behind the background.

Jim: parallax issue too.
... I will reseach

<allanj> I will research transparency

<allanj> media controls contrast http://www.tsbvi.edu/lvtf-video/media-control-contrast.html

<ScottM> I think having any sort of transparency is not a good thing

Steve: another issue for content authors to deal with.

Jim: will do some research on this.

Steve: same principle as the widget controversy.
... real problem. More you ask authors to do more variables you get.

The author uses sprite taken from the background image.

<allanj> similar to icon fonts.

<allanj> should semantically label role=img and aria-label

<allanj> similar to Use foreground (HTML) image methods such as img / svg, or Fallback of: Identify background images that are content in a semantic way so they can be ignored by the user-agent changes.

<allanj> semantically labeling should be an SC

Jim: will work on SC language.

<ScottM> Nothing for me

<ScottM> transparency is hard :)

<ScottM> bye

Jim: Need to translate all this into what content author’s need to do.

<allanj> trackbot, end meeting

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Default Present: JohnRochford, steverep, Laura, erich
Present: JohnRochford steverep Laura erich
Regrets: Wayne Glenda shawn
Found Scribe: Laura
Inferring ScribeNick: laura
Found Date: 04 May 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/05/04-lvtf-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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