27 Apr 2017


AWK, jasonjgw, Greg_Lowney, Kathy, DavidMacDonald, MichaelC, Chris_Loiselle, Joshue108, JF, Katie_Haritos-Shea, marcjohlic, shadi, Kim, KimD, LisaSeeman


Plain language (Minimum)

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Top3_18Apr2017/results#xq10

<AWK> Current draft: https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/plain-language-minimum_ISSUE-30/guidelines/sc/21/plain-language-minimum.html

Lisa: In regard to Common words. Scope relates to buttons, information , can people click. Create a word frequency list via script...
... Frequency list is public...

<LisaSeeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/plain-language-minimum_ISSUE-30/guidelines/sc/21/plain-language-minimum.html

Lisa: Scope is clearly defined...follows up to JF's question regarding scope question

AWK: Not a clear connection and what is being said on call for SC. Scope relates to other things than just buttons etc...

<Greg> Andrew, label should include button text, and navigational elements should include link text.

JF: Language of exception...no way to prove , less common words, how is that measured?

<Greg> John, I suggested changing "audience" to "intended audience" to address the same concern, at least in part.

<AWK> Greg, I agree with labels (https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#labeldef) including button text

<laura> (on LVTF call, will be calling in when it is adjourned)

<AWK> Greg, not sure that links are navigational elements

<JF> Definition: essential if removed, would fundamentally change the information or functionality of the content, and information and functionality cannot be achieved in another way that would conform

Lisa: example of a game, or teaching new terms - for games , navigational elements are part of game. Not worried about get out jail free card...some people may mis-use, but can't worry about that due to overall importance of SC

<LisaSeeman> change: Exceptions: Content is exempt if the writing style is an essential part of the main function of the site, such as a game, a literary work.

David: some value in SC that says do the right thing...generally they don't want to exercise exceptions

<Ryladog> +1 to that

AWK: Supplemental Guidance may be part of what David is talking about

<Greg> Jason, can you give examples of that?

Jason White: SC very good thing to do. JW talks to exceptions language can define it more precise.

Provisions are fairly limited in WCAG 2

JW: would like to see vocubulary specified for broad use

Lisa: Question to JW, is question on whether vocabulary is specified the issue? IMO, it is important to get SC in because it helps certain users with certain disabilities...

<AWK> q_

Lisa: Word frequency list is available, which means broadly applicable.
... this would be in the supplemental guidance...

<Ryladog> http://www.plainlanguage.gov/howto/guidelines/FederalPLGuidelines/index.cfm?CFID=7113931&CFTOKEN=a2b157871f955aa5-E14EC573-0EB4-BB81-32B40511C0213538&jsessionid=5F2AB9E088FB2624009F51E93BB2782E.chh

Katie H-S: English and US audience, requirements for applications having plain language...don't think we need to point to something in each language.

SC would benefit to have it out there...then getting feedback by people (for supplemental guidance)

10 years of input on subject

JF: International piece...."boot vs. trunk of car" cause for concern on internalization or use word when word is not a common word.

<JF> But where is the common space?

<Ryladog> For i18n...Plain Langauge initiatives are worldwide, it is not just the US that realized tthis was a good thing to do.....

Lisa: SC asking for people to put word frequency in public place

If think it is necessary, introduce a glossary...may not be necessary though.

<Ryladog> local glossay is a good idea

JF: Local glossary vs. word list....referenced resource, what is main difference?

<Ryladog> The glossary would need to meet the requirment itself

Lisa: Glossary could be an option, but may be easy out.

<LisaSeeman> john do you need the glosaary exception

<JF> +1 to Greg - we're headed in the right direction, and have made significant progress

<AWK> FYI, WCAG 2.0 has 2834 unique words :)

Greg L: There are specific issues that can be changed...asks group on whether this SC is worth a vote

<JF> @Lisa, I'd think that adding the local-Glossary exception would be helpful, but I wouldn't fight that one way or other

to get into a working draft

<LisaSeeman> i can live with the exception jon

AWK: Adapting text was introduced with specific caveat , but was pushed through. Not hearing consensus on Common Words yet.

GL: People seem to agree on goal, but other specific things can addressed via email.

<KimD> *1500 most common words for whom, tho? And for what profession? What country?

Marc J: Most important 1500 words....is able to distilled to simplified version...

<LisaSeeman> that would be in the nderstandable section

Lisa: asks for vote.

AWK: edits needed, can't vote at moment.

Single key shortcut alternative

<AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Top3_18Apr2017/results#xsc

<AWK> current version of SC: https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag21/single-key-shortcuts_ISSUE-69/guidelines/sc/21/single-key-shortcuts.html

<LisaSeeman> would anyone like to work on the plain lanuge sc with me and get the wording better?

David: single key shortcuts. Let's address significant issues.

<AWK> SC: "If single-character key shortcuts are used to activate a control, then a mechanism is available to turn them off or remap them to shortcuts with two or more characters."

JF: Lingering concern on word "mechanism", how is it provided...

David: previously, didn't want to intend author to create a mechansim. If the user agent can't do it, they would need to create a mechanism...
... Kim, please speak towards your concerns.

Kim: is there any confusion on why it is needed (speech users needing shortcuts). I'm using speech. Single key shortcuts , should be able to be turned off.

<AWK> This could be met by turning off all shortcuts

JF: realizes the concern on Assistive Tech and shortcuts. Not sure how to , in HTML, a double key shortcut can be introduced. Been an issue for long time.

<Greg> John, this is not just about HTML shortcuts, but also those implemented in scripting (webapps).

Opera used to remap shortcut keys...

Kim: Solution. Allow the user to enter "+" key (or something of the like)) into short cut keys. Google has an example of short cut keys

<Zakim> Greg, you wanted to discuss my concerns and suggestions listed in the survey

Greg L: this is about other web apps...vs. html markup.

Kim: author is introducing shortcuts.

<AWK> -1 to Jason's comment about speech tools restricting their work to when on a text field

Jason White: WCAG may be wrong place for this speech recognition example. Speech recognition limitations should be fixed. Change to AT and how they are implemented is needed.

<david-macdonald> Who's breathing

Kim: Have you used speech input used to do work for a day? The AT can never solve this issue. Single key shortcuts clash with input system. It is inherent to speech

<JF> the problem is the input method - which is a function of the software, not the content per-se

<shadi> [[like not being able to press certain keys on a keyboard]]

<Greg> I disagree this is a user agent issue: not at all. This is also not an Assistive Technology issue. Jason, this only puts new requirements on those webapp developers who really want to use single-key shortcuts, like F. This is significantly less accessible than using combinations like Ctrl+F, which has been the industry standard for decades.

<JF> Speech input should be modified for the 'input instruction' to remove the single-key feature/function - perhaps by requiring "shortcut:H"

Greg L: AT vs. non AT issues. Affects web authors / developers

<Greg> Also, this is not just speech, but all AT that simulates keyboard input, and also for users who have trouble telling whether the keyboard focus is still where they think it is.

David: Differences on Blind and Speech Assistive Tech: Timing of focus vs. just going to an element.

<Zakim> KimD, you wanted to ask - is this what we're trying to say? "If authors add single-character key shortcuts to activate a control, authors also shall add ways to turn them off or

Katie H-S: Sees the issue with what is custom coded...it is relevant to everyone, not just those using AT

which kim is speaking?

<AWK> KimD

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about the "implementable" aspect here

Kim D: functionality question...turning off to remap...

JF: web application ...mechanism should be part of web application. get's complicated. In application or user agent as part of the stack.

David: there needs to be a way to turn it off.

<Greg> John, we have to keep in mind that future markup languages might allow single-character shortcuts directly, thus this language should not be limited to webapps.

JF: access keys group is working on this..have we talked to this group?

<LisaSeeman> we solved this john

<LisaSeeman> you can do it using our opensource scriopt

David: I think it works.

<LisaSeeman> the personlization script solves this for html john

<LisaSeeman> people need a one line include for html

<LisaSeeman> it is completely done

David: Kim has expansive AT knowledge and it is easily testable. It has "wins" built in to SC

<Greg> Reminder that we will still need to address my survey comments.

<Joshue108> trackbot, end meeting

I can do this, John that would be great

John, do I just enter rrsagent make minutes

<JF> Chris, are you OK to finish up... it's not completed yet

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    [End of minutes]

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