W3C

- DRAFT -

Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

20 Apr 2017

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, MichielBijl, Stefan, janina, jkva, MichaelC, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, jongund, matt_king
Regrets
Jason_Duan
Chair
Joanmarie_Diggs
Scribe
MichielBijl

Contents


<joanie> clear agenda

<joanie> agenda: this

<joanie> agenda: be done

<Rich> scribeNick: MichielBijl

Welcoming Job van Achterberg (new Invited Expert)

JD: We have a new person, yay new person

Job van Achterberg / jkva

You can introduce yourself

JA: I’m Job van Achterberg, from the Netherlands, 34

My wife is Mallory, whom you might know

I’m a co-organiser of role=drinks together with Michiel

I also run inclusive design meetup in NL

I also write Python

All: Welcome!

JD: I recently became a co-chair of this group

Dev for Orco screen reader

Periodically do WebKit etc implementations of ARIA stuff.

RS: Co-chair of this group

Used to be at IBM

Live in Bonaire

<jkva> Bonaire

MB: I’m a dinosaur

JS: I’ve been part of this group for a while

Also part of other groups and chair of the APA

SS: I’m Stefan from Germany

I come from the applicability of ARIA

I joined this group about 5 years ago

It’s a nice working environment

I encourage you to take part

JN: I’ve met Job a couple of times already

Work for Oracle

Work on WCAG and APG

MK: I’m Matt King, work for Facebook

Think Rich brought me into this group around 2010

Editor on the APG

Used to be at IBM, that’s where I met Rich

MC: I’m the staff contact for the ARIA WG.

JG: I’m from the University of Illinois

Work on making their stuff more accessible

Been part of the ARIA WG for a long time

Also work on the APG

And on the ARIA testing with Joanie

JS: I work at the Inclusive Design Research Centre at OCAD University in Toronto

Also worked on the …

Previous editor of the APG

Now editor of core-aam

This will be my second last meeting

I’ll be leaving you all at the end of the month

RS: Want to thank Joseph for all he’s done

Joseph leaving

RS: Joseph was a great editor!

MK: He was always able to find anything faster than anyone else

JS: Thank you all!

<jongund> sorry to see go Joseph

<jongund> We have done a great job, you will be missed

JD: I’ve tried to convince him to stay, but alas

We can’t replace you Joseph

We do have a dutch man to plug some holes now though

MC: The door is always open if you want to re-join

ARIA 1.2: Do it or not?

Personalization CfC

<joanie> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2017Apr/0001.html

JD: About 10 days ago Rich put out a CFC

To do a FPWD

for Advance COGA Semantics to Enable Personalization

The CFC passes with no objections

ARIA 1.2: Do it or not?

RS: Situation: W3C management mesures on deliverables

of specifications

Like the HTML AAM

They depend on us, they link to all of our documents, it’s the basis of it

Not everybody is contributing on ARIA

Most work falls to three people particularly Joseph and Joanie

Some people prioritise other things over ARIA

For example work on APG instead of ARIA

This happened with 1.0 and we can’t have it happen with 1.1

<Irfan> Hello Everyone! This is Irfan from ETS. I just want to introduce myself here with the group. I work as accessibility engineer here at ETS.

<Irfan> yes I am

*scribe lost*

RS: There is a clear disconnect between what W3C management believes we should be doing, and what the group thinks they should be doing

Michael, did I mis-state anything?

MC: It’s a complicated situation

Philippe is focused on the rec channel

If we don’t make our delivery dates they have to make radical changes that we don’t want

RS: We should ask ourselves whether we should do 1.2, and whether we should continue as a WG after 1.1

Not saying APG is not a priority

Also want to thank all the APG members for all the work they do

However, we need to focus on getting ARIA 1.1 out the door

MC: We need to find a short term way to a ?? and b getting it done in that time frame

RS: Will point out this is not limited to APG

We’ve had some members dropping in and out for long periods of time

They’ve been helpful while they’re here

But the consistency isn’t what we’d like it to be

JN: Aaron Leventhal is doing work on the APG

MK: I’m trying to lure him back in

I’m not sure how this is framed

You said there is a disconnect and working group membership, that’s a problem

And number two there is a skillset disconnect

Is there a third problem?

Those are the two I’m hearing right now

RS: There’re resources that can do testing, that are working on the APG

I’ve done a bunch of test harness stuff this week

What we need is people working on APG to do testing

MK: Maybe a third problem is that everyone understands which work has to be done

MK ??

JD: I've developed one for AXAPI, though it's not in a public repository. And it works quite well. The one I did for ATK and AT-SPI2 are done and work even better

MK: So you’ve done two platforms?

Jon, I was under the impression that you made good progress?

Maybe part of this is making sure that we all understand what the game plan is

And where it stands

Would make it easier for people to figure out how and where to contribute

MC: If we tell the management that we’re not going to make the deadlines

The management will see that as members not seeing ARIA as a priority

While most members do see it as a priority

<Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about how W3M perceives Member interest

The problem is that we need to show the management that it is a priority

MK: Browser implementers, the critical part, are missing

MC: We’re not the only group struggling with that.

We need to press them on that

RS: Not just our group, HTML, SVG, among others also have this issue

The only time I see browser vendors is weeks after a decision is made they have an issue with.

Jon, I know you’ve been working on this, how far away are you from having your test integrate with Joanie’s?

JG: We have some Python versioning issues

Joanie works in Python 3 and we use version 2

We need to adapt it to run in Version 2

*something about Python*

RS: Job can you work with Jon to work this out?

JA: If I can get some more details, sure

We can work this out in another channel

MK: Doesn’t NVDA also work with different prog languages?

JG: Yes they do

JD: To be clear, if you’re doing it in Python 2, you can do separately

It doesn’t have to work with my stuff

Just port it to Python 2

It would be a separate project

RS: So we’d be doing it twice?

JD: No, it would different, it will not interact with my code

RS: So if you change something, Jon would have to do it again?

JD: No

RS: Would it be better for Jon to do it in Python 3?

JD: Yes, that would be easier for the code

RS: Is there a reason you can’t use Python 3?

JG: It’s a complex library, but if you have a Python guru around that can help

RS: Is it a bug in the library or in python?

JG: Not sure yet
... Would prefer to do it in 2.7
... We’ll take Joanie’s code and port it to 2.7

*techie stuff*

MK: What are our jobs once we have the automated testing tools?

RS: We have to run the tests

Microsoft said that they won’t be working on the harness for 1.1

We can generate the files for manual testing

We will have bugs in the test harness due to little nuances here and there

What I prefer happen, is getting people assigned to run the tests

JD: Don’t need volunteers for my platform, we need people for Windows

I’ve been filing bugs for ATK

https://twitter.com/detonite/status/854334793739378691

RS: Jon, thank you for what you’re doing and please continue, you’re on the critical path!
... Joanie, will Jon’s work merge into the general dashboard that shows the results?

JD: You download some JSON and that has the results

JG: Matt, so I should put APG aside and focus on the test harness?

MK: Yes

I think there’re some issues the group needs to talk about regarding priorities and such

I do see some differences between REC track and non-REC track stuff

It seems to be a common problem

RS: Bottom line is that we need to get ARIA 1.1 is finished

If we can’t finish 1.1 we shouldn’t be working on 1.2

Thank you all for the conversation today

Jon, please get together with Job and some other people, and please let us know where you stand next week

Michael did you want to add anything?

MC: No

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer MichielBijl Stefan janina jkva MichaelC Rich_Schwerdtfeger jongund matt_king
Regrets: Jason_Duan
Found ScribeNick: MichielBijl
Inferring Scribes: MichielBijl
Found Date: 20 Apr 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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