See also: IRC log
<mlefranc> https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/ssn/integrated/proposed-server-specification.md
Francois explaining that multiple serializations of the RDF artefact are required
scribe: to support content
negotiation
... also content disposition
<ahaller2> Approving last meeting's minutes https://www.w3.org/2017/04/11-sdwssn-minutes
<ahaller2> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> 0 (wasn’t there)
<mlefranc> +1
+1
<KJanowic> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +12
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<ahaller2> Approving last meeting's minutes https://www.w3.org/2017/04/12-sdwssn-minutes
<KJanowic> +1
+1
<RaulGarciaCastro> 0 (same reason)
<ahaller2> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<mlefranc> +1
<KJanowic> nearly ready, I would say
<KJanowic> IMHO, there are some last tasks left that I hope we can discuss today
ahaller2: thanking KJanowic
mlefranc DanhLePhuoc SimonCox for work since last weekend
... there will be a vote in plenary tomorrow
KJanowic: 5,6 things to make
document homogeneous
... editor list
... move ahaller2 to first position in list
... how to do this uncontroversially?
SimonCox: need to do this
openly
... phila said the editor list is up to group to decide
ahaller2: add mlefranc and SimonCox to list of editors
mlefranc: keep Kerry as first
editor, to acknowledge contribution
... what position for ahaller2 ?
KJanowic: ahaller2 contribution is greatest
<ahaller2> https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/
ahaller2: explicitly alphabetical ordering of editors?
KJanowic: in prov-o alphebetical was for contributors, not editors
DanhLePhuoc: leadership from ahaller2 makes him clear first editor
Proposed: add mlefranc and SimonCox to list of editors
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: SimonCox to become editor of the WD
<KJanowic> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
<ahaller2> +1
<mlefranc> +1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
0
Thank you
RESOLUTION: SimonCox to become editor of the WD
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: mlefranc to become editor of the WD
<KJanowic> +1
<ahaller2> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> +1
+1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<mlefranc> 0
<mlefranc> thanks a lot
RESOLUTION: mlefranc to become editor of the WD
<KJanowic> PROPOSED: ahaller2 is the first editor of the WD
<KJanowic> +1
I would propose ahaller2 first, then alpha?
+1
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<ahaller2> 0
<mlefranc> first or second depending on what kerry says
<RaulGarciaCastro> 0 (without asking first)
<mlefranc> +1
(though of course that favours me)
RESOLUTION: ahaller2 is the first editor of the WD
KJanowic: polish text
... UpperCaseSingular for class name
<RaulGarciaCastro> Agree with KJanowic, now it is mixed
--- lower case (plural?) in text
scribe: e.g Observation vs "... observations ..."
<mlefranc> there can be <a href="#SOSAObservation"><code>Observation</code></a>s ?
scribe: no upper case in plain
text - no class names in plain text description _unless_ the
class is being specifically referred to
... in both RDF and document
<mlefranc> example in 4. This section introduces the specifications for SOSA and SSN. To ease readability, the following figures provide an overview over the (SOSA) core classes and properties that are specifically related to modeling Observations, Actuations, and Sampling.
KJanowic: still needs cleaning up in document
<mlefranc> Observations, Actuations, and Sampling. would be ----> observations, actuations, and Samplings ?
<ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to check consistency on the use of terms in the ontology to be used in the text section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-322 - Check consistency on the use of terms in the ontology to be used in the text section [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due 2017-04-25].
KJanowic: figures have different styles
<mlefranc> good to put it in the caption :-)
<ahaller2> +1 for caption
KJanowic: figures need to be made more consistent
SimonCox: fiures were prepared over long period, definitely not consistent -
<ahaller2> ACTION: SimonCox to update figures to make them consistent and add caption [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-323 - Update figures to make them consistent and add caption [on Simon Cox - due 2017-04-25].
SimonCox: add a note to the document that we will improve figures
<ahaller2> ACTION: ahaller2 to add note to the document to indicated that graphs will still be updated [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-324 - Add note to the document to indicated that graphs will still be updated [on Armin Haller - due 2017-04-25].
RaulGarciaCastro: lack of figures
in SOSA/SSN part
... need more to make it comprehensible 'at a glance'
<RaulGarciaCastro> https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/XGR-ssn-20110628/#Ontology_structure
RaulGarciaCastro: volunteer to contribute figures (not using C-Map)
<mlefranc> @ahaller2, which one would be a REC .
<mlefranc> ?
ahaller2: kerry had suggested an
adidtional document - 'Primer' - with more figures?
... also examples need to be added
<ahaller2> ACTION: RaulGarciaCastro to add ontology graphs using similar style as in SSNX work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-325 - Add ontology graphs using similar style as in ssnx work [on Raúl García Castro - due 2017-04-25].
<ahaller2> https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/XGR-ssn-20110628/images/OntStructure-Overview.jpg
ahaller2: particularly for grouping components
<mlefranc> talking about https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2017Apr/0208.html
mlefranc: wants to completely re-organize groupings again!
ahaller2: ordering of document vs
ordering within RDF graph
... don't need to be the same
<RaulGarciaCastro> That would be the best scenario
mlefranc: who is the target? users or who ?
SimonCox: different audiences
need differnet documents
... primer will n ot get done in this round
... also need a slim document for schema.org
ahaller2: raise in meeting tomorrow - figures, # documents, primer, audiences
DanhLePhuoc: schema.org already talking about IOT - no reference to this project
ahaller2: danbri is already aware
and interested
... ... intention is for SOSA to be proposed to
schema.org
... SOSA currently hidden in complex document
KJanowic: [Hide SSN terms] button
on every term - too noisy for SOSA readers
... don't need them everywhere
... two shades of blue - too subtle
... for SOSA vs SSN
... make it easire on wide review audience
<mlefranc> would be glad to have two very different colours, what would they be ? :-)
KJanowic: homogenize lc vs UC in
headings
... procedure executors etc - structuring principle , but not
in ontology - noisy
<KJanowic> That would be great
<KJanowic> Keep in midn that we have worked on that for a year. Everybody else has not
maybe remove dotted box?
ahaller2: colouring
mlefranc: CSS is nightmare
ahaller2: colours are useful, but
nowhere explained!
... and need to be more distinguishable
mlefranc: should be consistent - light-blue SOSA, dark-blue SSN
<mlefranc> check for "border" in the css
<ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to change colours to be more distinguishable and potentially remove the dotted line around the buttons and potentially the black lines around the boxes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker. Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
<ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to change colours to be more distinguishable and potentially remove the dotted line around the buttons and potentially the black lines around the boxes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker. Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
'Hide additional SSN axioms'
<ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to rename boxes to "Hide additional SSN Axioms" and "Show additional SSN Axioms" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker. Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
<ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to check upper case in titles to be consistent [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Error creating an ACTION: could not connect to Tracker. Please mail <sysreq@w3.org> with details about what happened.
mlefranc: proposing to re-organize document to group terms by Observation, Actuation, Sampling, Common classes (e.g. FoI)
<mlefranc> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2017Apr/0208.html
<KJanowic> I agree
RaulGarciaCastro: try to move SOSA terms to top, SSN at bottom ... within each section
<mlefranc> please answer to the mail and propose on another ordering and grouping, I will just implement them
<mlefranc> ok
visual appearance within document vs. ToC needs to be clear
KJanowic: move 7. 8. 9. 10. into one big group
mlefranc: Features section at the top to introduce before mentioning
<KJanowic> 1. Observations 2. Actuation, 3. Sampling, 4 FOI, 5. 5. Systems,
<KJanowic> sorry
<KJanowic> 1. Observations 2. Actuation, 3. Sampling, 4 FOI, 5. Procedure , 6. Systems, and then the rest
ahaller2: Raul's boxes that will provide grouping on other dimensions
<ahaller2> ACTION: mlefranc to reorder Terms in the Spec section according to his email and the changes proposed in the meeting, i.e. Observation, Actuation, Sampling, FoI etc. in 10 hours from this call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action09]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-326 - Reorder terms in the spec section according to his email and the changes proposed in the meeting, i.e. observation, actuation, sampling, foi etc. in 10 hours from this call [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-04-25].
<scribe> ACTION: KJanowic to check upper case in titles to be consistent [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action10]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-327 - Check upper case in titles to be consistent [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due 2017-04-25].
<KJanowic> I can do so
<scribe> ACTION: KJanowic to rename boxes to "Hide additional SSN Axioms" and "Show additional SSN Axioms" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action11]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-328 - Rename boxes to "hide additional ssn axioms" and "show additional ssn axioms" [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due 2017-04-25].
<KJanowic> No, I am fine. Sorry again
<scribe> ACTION: KJanowic to change colours to be more distinguishable and potentially remove the dotted line around the buttons and potentially the black lines around the boxes [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action12]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-329 - Change colours to be more distinguishable and potentially remove the dotted line around the buttons and potentially the black lines around the boxes [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due 2017-04-25].
[repeating actions now Tracker is working again]
<KJanowic> Does this mean we introduced functional property axioms into SOSA?
SimonCox: just checking use of functional property on hasSample isSampleOf
KJanowic: no functional property axoims in SOSA - only in SSN extension
mlefranc: do we need hasResultingSample? only need hasResult?
SimonCox: this is difficult in context of SOSA - need to say that the result of an act of sampling is only a Sample
<KJanowic> Let us not do such big changes now, I am already confused that we did so many other changes without having any discussions
in SOSA we can only say this with the specialized property hasResultingSample
in SSN we say that this is a sub-property of hasResult, but this relationship is not available to SOSA :-(
<KJanowic> Btw, I removed the css button borders, reload the page
+1 KJanowic
<KJanowic> Let us not do such big changes now, I am already confused that we did so many other changes without having any discussions
Can you also remove border around blue boxes? KJanowic
http://www.darkhorseanalytics.com/blog/data-looks-better-naked
KJanowic: need to more circumspect about introduction of new axioms without discussion
(some of us recall term-by-term discussions earlier - shouldn't be cavalier now!)
danger danger
DanhLePhuoc: Figure 1 - SSNX alignment also imports DUL alignment modeul
<mlefranc> https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/ssn/integrated/ssnx.ttl
<ahaller2> ACTION: ahaller2 to include arrow from SSNX to Dulce in Figure 1 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action13]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-330 - Include arrow from ssnx to dulce in figure 1 [on Armin Haller - due 2017-04-25].
DanhLePhuoc: does SSNX alignment import old SSN?
<mlefranc> rename "SSNX Alignment Module" into "old SSN ontology that is importing DUL" ?
<DanhLePhuoc> rdfs:seeAlso <http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/> ; owl:imports ssn: ; owl:imports <http://www.ontologydesignpatterns.org/ont/dul/DUL.owl> ; owl:imports <https://www.w3.org/ns/ssn-dul/> .
DanhLePhuoc: in the RDF file - no import of incubator SSNX ontology
<DanhLePhuoc> ssnx.ttl
ahaller2: no external ontologies in figure
<KJanowic> Should we have the vote now?
SimonCox: concerned that PROV alignment module never discussed/approved in group meeting
<ahaller2> PROPOSED: PROV Ontology Alignment to include as a non-normative part in the WD
<KJanowic> +1
+1
<mlefranc> +1
<RaulGarciaCastro> 0
<DanhLePhuoc> +1
<ahaller2> +1
RESOLUTION: PROV Ontology Alignment to include as a non-normative part in the WD
I think we missed this ACTION:
<scribe> ACTION: ahaller2 to discuss with Kerry if she wishes to remain on list of editors [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action14]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-331 - Discuss with kerry if she wishes to remain on list of editors [on Armin Haller - due 2017-04-25].
<RaulGarciaCastro> I think that the question was not about removing Kerry from the list
<RaulGarciaCastro> Just asking her about the order
Can DanhLePhuoc add necessary <imports> in SSNX alignment modele?
<KJanowic> I am confused
<KJanowic> and keep in mind that we need others to understand this (not just us)
we had alignment of old to new SSN
but intention is to replace old ontology file with a resource that redirects through to the new SSN
'SSNX alignment module' is actually a complete representation of SSNX
we are not keep provenance clear -
<KJanowic> a bit
confusion between replacement & alignment
need to be careful
[*5 minutes left guys*]
DanhLePhuoc: can't merge DUL alignments because of major change to position of :Observation
<KJanowic> I understand this but we started to do substantial changes over the last days without much checks and discussions
mlefranc: SSNX alignment should
just <imports> old ontology
... but this would introduce incorrect DUL alignment
ahaller2: need to do SSNX
replacement knitting after review
... SSNX alignment needs its own namespace
mlefranc: Deployment - was aligned with dul:Process, now aligned with dul:Situation
<KJanowic> This is something that we should not discuss with seconds left on the clock
<DanhLePhuoc> agree with Simon
<KJanowic> nobody noticed and this is the problem
SimonCox: can't debate DUL issues now - in non-normative part only, only important for a small subset of audience
<mlefranc> ok, good, just wanted you to be aware of my decisions
ahaller2: park DUL issues for
now
... any concerns around normative parts
actions?
<ahaller2> ACTION: Ahaller to adjust editor list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action15]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Ahaller'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
<ahaller2> ACTION: Ahaller2 to adjust editor list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/04/18-sdwssn-minutes.html#action16]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-332 - Adjust editor list [on Armin Haller - due 2017-04-25].
<RaulGarciaCastro> Bye!
