Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference

<renato> https://www.w3.org/2017/01/30-poe-minutes.html

Last week's minutes

Agenda item 1: Everyone okay to approve last week's minutes?

<victor> +1

<Serena> +1

The URL in the minutes is incorrect. Noted. 1 week off.

<phila> I'll fix that error, no probs

Minutes approved.

<renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/98

Discussion on: "IsNecessaryFor" operator.

Now referred to as an "and sequence"

A comment was added that this and sequence primarily is intended for temporal expressions.

Implementations need to be aware of this.

Information model was tidied a bit.

Any comments on the changes?

Question for Simon: Are any of the issues serious holdups?

Simon: "Apologies for handwriting. Two things need to be addressed."

"Whenever there is a list of attributes with an inconsistency between the attributes listed and properties available."

"Would assume to have target property, not asset for permission"

"I would like to have this addressed."

"second issue: non-normative attributes"

"Which stuff is normative, and which isn't?"

Renato: "permission list of asset and party are used in the xml directly."

"written in the days when XML was the only representation"

Simon: "the same style of listing attributes and relations (the same in RDF), ..."

Renato: "we can look at the use of the word 'relation' here"

Simon: "Why do I need to have asset explicitly mentioned here?"

"How do I link to that asset explicitly?"

Renato: "Let's say the permissioned entity has the following attributes..."

Simon: "Let's move target up from generic relation"
... "let's get rid of capital letter"

"Party has a relation that points to something of type Party"

(not sure I got that right)

Ben: "returning to and sequence predicate, the temporal context is a subset of the complex constraints we want to cover"

<renato> https://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/#term-andSequence

"Should we say both constraints must be met rather than the left constraint must be met before the right"

Renato: "if you remove the sequence, then it is just an and operator"

"not qualifying then"

Ben: "in payment, the unit qualifies the amount to be paid"
... "can we still express embargo without a temporal order? I don't know the answer."

Renato: "embargo use case is different then 30 minutes after match"

Ben: "Is it?"
... "if we step away from how the processor will implement it, we can avoid the temporal aspect. Not our concern."
... "How can we do unit of currency without additional constraints?"

Renato: "the unit doesn't constrain. Really just an and"
... "you could have a constraint amount constrained by 10 and another constraint currency AUD so you get 10AUD"

<simonstey> as for time constraints, I still think we should just use http://w3c.github.io/sdw/time/#time:TemporalEntity

Renato: "you are compensating me in both a quantity and currency"

Ben: "Could we change wording to remove temporal ordering?"

Simon: "without temporal ordering, for 30 minutes after, the constraint is trivially fulfilled after 30 minutes"

Renato: "we need to point to a temporal entity, not just a datetime"

Ben: "Brian, can't you do this in SPARQL?"

Brian: "we need to work through example. Didn't have chance last week"

Ben: "What else do we want to bring up from model document?"
... "Can we bring draft to meeting next week?"

Simon: "How about before meeting, so we have chance to read?"

Ben: "let's move on to vocab expression doc"

Renato: "outstanding issue is context"

"We want to create a JSON-LD context for this."

<simonstey> +q

"need this before working draft."

"Need to find someone who knows JSON-LD."

Renato: "if we can get JSON-LD context done, we can vote on the doc"

<phila> Playground

Phil: "there's no valid JSON-LD example in the docs."

<renato> ODRL JSON-LD context freelancing: https://www.upwork.com/job/Create-JSON-Context-Definition-for-ODRL_~0156ff5fdb318c478f/

Ivan: "without a context file, the JSON-LD will not be valid"

<renato> Make $$ fast ;-)

Simon: "example 14 has a column missing after target"

<renato> "action": "odrl:display"

Simon: "why do we need namespace for odrl:display?"

<simonstey> "action": "odrl:print"

Ivan: "not necessary for what we would call object properties"

Simon: "typo in example 14"

Stewart: "discussing posting?"

"is someone going to do the work?"

"no one has applied"

Renato: "Do we know a JSON-LD expert?"

Phil: "I have just tweeted a link to the post"

Ben: "wide review campaign"

Renato: "we need to track who sent what to whom, responses, etc. Need a wiki page."

Ben: "what was the hit rate?

Phil: "hit rate was not high. More important for director to see that you tried."

Ivan: "it is unpredictable."

<renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Deliverables

Renato: "we need to have enough people listed."

Ben: "a number of W3C people said they'd follow when we were chartered. Let's follow up with them, if we can find the list."
... "how far off are we from publishable use case requirements doc?"

Simon: "can have for next meeting."

Ben: "would be nice if we could publish vocab, use cases and info model at same time."

REnato: "def two weeks, given JSON-LD issue"

Ben: "Ok, let's aim for two weeks."
... "semantics doc?"

Renato: "let's start actively working on that in 2 weeks."

Victor: "we plan to submit doc in next week"

Simon, Sabrina, Victor are editors of the formal semantics doc.

Ben: "are we all pretty happy with timing of semantics doc"
... "model is stabilized enough to make a first pass"

<renato> http://w3c.github.io/poe/bp/

<simonstey> +q

Victor: "we can start on best practices doc"

Ben: "I will start laying out examples for best practices."

Renato: "James Birmingham will be another useful editor"

"they are doing technical examples using ODRL"

Ben: "what about paul jessup?"
... "moving on, other business?"

Simon: "is the ontology a different doc than the vocabulary? are they both recommendations?"

Phil: "the formal publications appear in 'tr space'. Can't touch. That's not the same as the namespace document, which is a list of terms, autogenerated. Treated differently."

"the ns doc can be edited sensiblly"

Phil: "how many can see the AC review?"

<phila> AC Review results (member link)

Ben: "running short on time. is there anything on London f2f?"

please notify via wiki if you plan to attend. At TR London.

<phila> Please add your name/regrets here

<victor> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:London2017

Thanks!