W3C

Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

31 Jan 2017

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa
Regrets
Chair
Joseph_Scheuhammer
Scribe
joanie

Contents


<clown> agenda: this

<scribe> scribe: joanie

GH-ISSUE-513: (All/Joanie) Mapping of role="region" when it doesn't have an accessible name.

<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/513#issuecomment-276150266

JS: This is the recent request to change the mapping for role="region" if it doesn't have a name.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region

JS: We agreed to the changes, which I made (see URL above)
... For each AAPI, I added a special case to use the native host language mapping rather than landmark when the region has no name.
... My feeling is that since Joanie opened the issue in Github, it's her job to close it.
... That practice is something I've encountered in other projects.
... So I will leave it to Joanie to close it, unless she says "no"

RS: I'm fine with the changes.

JS: What is our practice for closing issues in our group?
... Who has the responsibility or the privilege.

RS: I think the chair of the task force has the right to do it.
... Why should we change what works?

JD: I tend to close issues I am pretty sure I did correctly (e.g. with the ARIA spec, as editor).
... But I add the comment that if the reporter finds any problems with my change, he/she should feel free to reopen.
... And it sounds like what you did is correct, though I'm scribing and cannot check.
... So go ahead and close it.

JS: Done.

ACTION-1707 (Joseph/All) pending final review.

<clown> action-1707

<trackbot> action-1707 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the AXAPI mapping table for roles presentation and none to specify that when applied to tables and lists, the children are exposed as AXStaticText accessibles. -- due 2016-12-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1707

JS: This was, up until quite recently, just changing a mapping in AXAPI.
... But it has since turned into something bigger and more general.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-none

JS: Joanie suggested reversing the text.
... Link to the general rule first, and then state the specific cases.
... That's what I've done (see above URL)
... (Reads from spec)

RS: You're saying empty containers should be pruned?

JS: Yes.
... Anything else that needs to be done here, or can I close it?

JD: Looks good to me. Rich?

RS: Agreed.

JS: Closing it then.

(All) Specifying AAPI UIA interface in focus events table

JS: Rich asked me to do this awhile ago.

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#focus_state_event_table

JS: I had some second thoughts and so wanted to talk more about it.
... There's a focus state table (URL above).
... You (Rich) wanted to know the interface associated with what is in the table.
... We discussed this further via Skype.
... And we decided to follow up with Bogdan to get the information.
... But then it occurred to me that this issue applies to all accessibility APIs; not just UIA.
... So do we really want to do this?

RS: They have a bunch of control patterns in UIA.
... Maybe it doesn't mater if Microsoft is going to do manual testing.

JS: But they started the whole manual testing.

RS: They may have had a change in available resources, but they do not have an ATTA.
... I'm writing tests and I need to know what tests to write for automated testing.
... Joanie has provided some mappings for ATK/AT-SPI2.

JS: But not for the focus table.

RS: Right, not for the focus table.
... UIA has properties and all these different interfaces, so I've had to look around to see where things are.

JS: I can then go ahead and email Bogdan.
... But just for the focus table, or for everything?
... I'm looking at the mapping for progress bar, and the control pattern is progressbar.

RS: But now you have a range value pattern.

JS: Yes, it has the range value pattern too, but I don't know where that is.

RS: I'm looking at the test harness for range values.
... As an example, scroll bar.

<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#default_values:_role.3D.22scrollbar.22

RS: (Reads from URL above)
... I can figure it out for testing purposes.

JS: I think the person running the test needs to know about the patterns and how to access them.

RS: But it would be nice to have more specific information, especially for automation.

JS: So do you want it for all tables?

RS: There are already places we do this in the spec.
... And I think it's good to be specific.

JS: I'll ask Bogdan for this information.

(All) update on AX API GH-ISSUEs

JS: There are a whole bunch of Github issues for AX API mappings.
... As Joanie goes through and looks for things for WebKitGtk, she will tell us if anything is being done for these issues.
... And we can update things as we go.

(All) aria-label and the accname-aam

JS: I've been getting hit with emails and Github issues related to the AccName computation.
... aria-label was done entirely via email.
... I seem to have addressed James Craig's concerns and no one has objected.

<clown> "if the current node has an aria-label attribute whose value is not the empty string and does not consist only of white space"

JS: He was concerned about what does "non-empty" really mean?
... So I proposed the text I've quoted above.
... Anyone object to that change?

RS: No

JS: There's a similar statement related to aria-labelledby, and a similar concern.

<clown> Current wording is: "if aria-labelledby is non-empty, then …"

<clown> First suggested change: "if the aria-labelledby attribute is non-empty and contains at least on vaild IDREF, then …"

<clown> Second suggested change: "if the aria-labelledby attribute contains at least on vaild IDREF, then …"

JS: Before I make the change, I'll propose it on the Github issue and see what he thinks.
... Does anyone here have objections to those changes?

RS: I think it's fine.

(All) aria-labelledby and the accname-aam

JS: We just talked about this under the previous item.

Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23

<clown> actions-1681?

<clown> action-1681?

<trackbot> action-1681 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose new wording, as an editorial change only to clarify the inclusion rules in section 5.1.2 -- due 2016-12-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1681

JS: I'm working on this.
... We had a bunch of rules in the spec regarding when role presentation is overridden.
... Rich added text to the ARIA spec.
... I need to make corresponding changes in Core AAM.

RS: I thought you'd done this already.

JS: No, but I hope to have it done by next week.

<clown> action-1732?

<trackbot> action-1732 -- Michael Cooper to Work on conformance section for mappings (note there is a section, but change id=conformance so respec picks up) -- due 2015-10-14 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1732

JS: On action-1732, I'll ping Michael Cooper.

<clown> action-2056?

<trackbot> action-2056 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Coordinate the mappings for the various AAPIs of the enumerated aria-haspopup values -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2056

JS: This might be not relevant any more
... There's a discussion between James and Rich about relationships.
... Is this one of the Github issues?
... What James is saying is that we don't need this.
... (Reads from issue)
... But James has not made any other comments in tracker.
... I'll check Github.
... I don't see a Github issue for this. Why not?

RS: I don't think we made an issue to this.

JS: Should I put "unimplemented" in the Core AAM?

RS: No. Microsoft is doing something similar.

JS: There are mappings in AXAPI, show-menu and press actions.
... Microsoft has the expand/collapse pattern. That's it.
... I'm inclined to close this action if it's alright with everyone.

RS: Ok.

JS: Closed.

<clown> action-2017?

<trackbot> action-2017 -- Cynthia Shelly to Look at annotation overlap with aria-linktype -- due 2016-03-04 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2017

<clown> aciton-2057?

<clown> action-2057?

<trackbot> action-2057 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Suggest that axapi mapping of role="form" should be a landmark in the AXSubRole. -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2057

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form

JD: I've done a number of the WebkitGtk + Safari issues (and in some cases implementations).
... But right now I cannot recall if I did this or not, and would need to review my commits, etc.

JS: Ok, I'll leave this open and not change the due date.

JD: Fine.

<clown> action-2117?

<trackbot> action-2117 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Update core-aam to not expose aria-details relationships that reference elements that are hidden. -- due 2016-09-22 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2117

<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDetails

RS: The problem is that if you go there and there's nothing there to navigate within, you wind up in the aether.

<clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-details

JS: The spec URL is above.
... Looking at the example 18 you have a paragraph that might be hidden.
... I can see why you wouldn't expose it, because there's nothing to expose.
... The mappings on all platforms is a pointer of some kind.
... So is this as simple as adding a sentence, if the details element is not present, do not expose a relationship?

RS: If the *referenced* details element is not present....

JS: In the accessibility tree.

RS: I'm sure the browsers handle this already.
... Do we have to write a test for this?

JS: We probably should.

<clown> "If the referenced details accessible object is not present in the accessibility tree (e..g,. because the details are hidden), do not expose {the relationship}"

JS: Proposed text above.
... For each accessibility API, I'd adjust "{the relationship}" to reflect that API's mapping.
... I'll reassign this issue to me.

<clown> action-2130

<trackbot> action-2130 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Determine if AX AXPI supports an event if the accessible description changes. -- due 2016-12-20 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2130

JD: I emailed Apple, I need to follow up.
... But the short answer is "no".

JS: I've heard this is handy for tooltips.
... Can you (Joanie) update 2130 and then change the owner to me?

JD: Sure.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Found Scribe: joanie
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Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa
Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Bryan_Garaventa
Found Date: 31 Jan 2017
People with action items: 

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