See also: IRC log
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/513#issuecomment-276150266
JS: This is the recent request to change the mapping for role="region" if it doesn't have a name.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
JS: We agreed to the changes,
which I made (see URL above)
... For each AAPI, I added a special case to use the native
host language mapping rather than landmark when the region has
no name.
... My feeling is that since Joanie opened the issue in Github,
it's her job to close it.
... That practice is something I've encountered in other
projects.
... So I will leave it to Joanie to close it, unless she says
"no"
RS: I'm fine with the changes.
JS: What is our practice for
closing issues in our group?
... Who has the responsibility or the privilege.
RS: I think the chair of the task
force has the right to do it.
... Why should we change what works?
JD: I tend to close issues I am
pretty sure I did correctly (e.g. with the ARIA spec, as
editor).
... But I add the comment that if the reporter finds any
problems with my change, he/she should feel free to
reopen.
... And it sounds like what you did is correct, though I'm
scribing and cannot check.
... So go ahead and close it.
JS: Done.
<clown> action-1707
<trackbot> action-1707 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the AXAPI mapping table for roles presentation and none to specify that when applied to tables and lists, the children are exposed as AXStaticText accessibles. -- due 2016-12-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1707
JS: This was, up until quite
recently, just changing a mapping in AXAPI.
... But it has since turned into something bigger and more
general.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-none
JS: Joanie suggested reversing
the text.
... Link to the general rule first, and then state the specific
cases.
... That's what I've done (see above URL)
... (Reads from spec)
RS: You're saying empty containers should be pruned?
JS: Yes.
... Anything else that needs to be done here, or can I close
it?
JD: Looks good to me. Rich?
RS: Agreed.
JS: Closing it then.
JS: Rich asked me to do this awhile ago.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#focus_state_event_table
JS: I had some second thoughts
and so wanted to talk more about it.
... There's a focus state table (URL above).
... You (Rich) wanted to know the interface associated with
what is in the table.
... We discussed this further via Skype.
... And we decided to follow up with Bogdan to get the
information.
... But then it occurred to me that this issue applies to all
accessibility APIs; not just UIA.
... So do we really want to do this?
RS: They have a bunch of control
patterns in UIA.
... Maybe it doesn't mater if Microsoft is going to do manual
testing.
JS: But they started the whole manual testing.
RS: They may have had a change in
available resources, but they do not have an ATTA.
... I'm writing tests and I need to know what tests to write
for automated testing.
... Joanie has provided some mappings for ATK/AT-SPI2.
JS: But not for the focus table.
RS: Right, not for the focus
table.
... UIA has properties and all these different interfaces, so
I've had to look around to see where things are.
JS: I can then go ahead and email
Bogdan.
... But just for the focus table, or for everything?
... I'm looking at the mapping for progress bar, and the
control pattern is progressbar.
RS: But now you have a range value pattern.
JS: Yes, it has the range value pattern too, but I don't know where that is.
RS: I'm looking at the test
harness for range values.
... As an example, scroll bar.
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#default_values:_role.3D.22scrollbar.22
RS: (Reads from URL above)
... I can figure it out for testing purposes.
JS: I think the person running the test needs to know about the patterns and how to access them.
RS: But it would be nice to have more specific information, especially for automation.
JS: So do you want it for all tables?
RS: There are already places we
do this in the spec.
... And I think it's good to be specific.
JS: I'll ask Bogdan for this information.
JS: There are a whole bunch of
Github issues for AX API mappings.
... As Joanie goes through and looks for things for WebKitGtk,
she will tell us if anything is being done for these
issues.
... And we can update things as we go.
JS: I've been getting hit with
emails and Github issues related to the AccName
computation.
... aria-label was done entirely via email.
... I seem to have addressed James Craig's concerns and no one
has objected.
<clown> "if the current node has an aria-label attribute whose value is not the empty string and does not consist only of white space"
JS: He was concerned about what
does "non-empty" really mean?
... So I proposed the text I've quoted above.
... Anyone object to that change?
RS: No
JS: There's a similar statement related to aria-labelledby, and a similar concern.
<clown> Current wording is: "if aria-labelledby is non-empty, then …"
<clown> First suggested change: "if the aria-labelledby attribute is non-empty and contains at least on vaild IDREF, then …"
<clown> Second suggested change: "if the aria-labelledby attribute contains at least on vaild IDREF, then …"
JS: Before I make the change,
I'll propose it on the Github issue and see what he
thinks.
... Does anyone here have objections to those changes?
RS: I think it's fine.
JS: We just talked about this under the previous item.
<clown> actions-1681?
<clown> action-1681?
<trackbot> action-1681 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose new wording, as an editorial change only to clarify the inclusion rules in section 5.1.2 -- due 2016-12-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1681
JS: I'm working on this.
... We had a bunch of rules in the spec regarding when role
presentation is overridden.
... Rich added text to the ARIA spec.
... I need to make corresponding changes in Core AAM.
RS: I thought you'd done this already.
JS: No, but I hope to have it done by next week.
<clown> action-1732?
<trackbot> action-1732 -- Michael Cooper to Work on conformance section for mappings (note there is a section, but change id=conformance so respec picks up) -- due 2015-10-14 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1732
JS: On action-1732, I'll ping Michael Cooper.
<clown> action-2056?
<trackbot> action-2056 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Coordinate the mappings for the various AAPIs of the enumerated aria-haspopup values -- due 2016-06-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2056
JS: This might be not relevant
any more
... There's a discussion between James and Rich about
relationships.
... Is this one of the Github issues?
... What James is saying is that we don't need this.
... (Reads from issue)
... But James has not made any other comments in tracker.
... I'll check Github.
... I don't see a Github issue for this. Why not?
RS: I don't think we made an issue to this.
JS: Should I put "unimplemented" in the Core AAM?
RS: No. Microsoft is doing something similar.
JS: There are mappings in AXAPI,
show-menu and press actions.
... Microsoft has the expand/collapse pattern. That's it.
... I'm inclined to close this action if it's alright with
everyone.
RS: Ok.
JS: Closed.
<clown> action-2017?
<trackbot> action-2017 -- Cynthia Shelly to Look at annotation overlap with aria-linktype -- due 2016-03-04 -- CLOSED
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2017
<clown> aciton-2057?
<clown> action-2057?
<trackbot> action-2057 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Suggest that axapi mapping of role="form" should be a landmark in the AXSubRole. -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2057
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
JD: I've done a number of the
WebkitGtk + Safari issues (and in some cases
implementations).
... But right now I cannot recall if I did this or not, and
would need to review my commits, etc.
JS: Ok, I'll leave this open and not change the due date.
JD: Fine.
<clown> action-2117?
<trackbot> action-2117 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Update core-aam to not expose aria-details relationships that reference elements that are hidden. -- due 2016-09-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2117
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDetails
RS: The problem is that if you go there and there's nothing there to navigate within, you wind up in the aether.
<clown> https://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-details
JS: The spec URL is above.
... Looking at the example 18 you have a paragraph that might
be hidden.
... I can see why you wouldn't expose it, because there's
nothing to expose.
... The mappings on all platforms is a pointer of some
kind.
... So is this as simple as adding a sentence, if the details
element is not present, do not expose a relationship?
RS: If the *referenced* details element is not present....
JS: In the accessibility tree.
RS: I'm sure the browsers handle
this already.
... Do we have to write a test for this?
JS: We probably should.
<clown> "If the referenced details accessible object is not present in the accessibility tree (e..g,. because the details are hidden), do not expose {the relationship}"
JS: Proposed text above.
... For each accessibility API, I'd adjust "{the relationship}"
to reflect that API's mapping.
... I'll reassign this issue to me.
<clown> action-2130
<trackbot> action-2130 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Determine if AX AXPI supports an event if the accessible description changes. -- due 2016-12-20 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2130
JD: I emailed Apple, I need to
follow up.
... But the short answer is "no".
JS: I've heard this is handy for
tooltips.
... Can you (Joanie) update 2130 and then change the owner to
me?
JD: Sure.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.148 of Date: 2016/10/11 12:55:14 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/works./works?/ Succeeded: s/JS;/JS:/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Joseph_Scheuhammer Rich_Schwerdtfeger Bryan_Garaventa Found Date: 31 Jan 2017 People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]