Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

17 Jan 2017

See also: IRC log


AWK, JF, Laura, Pietro, Kathy, adam_solomon, marcjohlic, Greg_Lowney, Makoto, Lauriat, MikeGower, Jim_S, allanj, kirkwood, David-MacDonald, JohnRochford, Judy, erich, Detlev, Joshue108, Rachael, Mike_Pluke, shwetank, NeilMilliken, MichaelC, Wayne, Katie_Haritos-Shea, steverep, Mike, Elledge, jeanne, alastairc
Moe_Kraft, wilco, lisa_seeman_thaddeus, Bruce_Bailey, jon_avila


<scribe> Scribe: Laura

Charter Update/Discussion

AWK: Charter out for review
... 3 FOs
... have been engaging with people with concerns.
... Future work for silver is a concern.
... incubation or not within the Working Group.
... one option is to do it in a comunity group.
... may best be done in the Working Group.

<AWK> http://awkawk.github.io/ag-charter.html

AWK: perhaps not rec track for now.

Working on changes at: http://awkawk.github.io/ag-charter.html

scribe: 2.1 is the main proirity.
... will do a survey and CFC.

JF: one thing don’t see here about end of charter that more work will happen other than silver.

<Joshue108> The Working Group intends to produce updated guidance for accessibility on a regular interval, starting with WCAG 2.1.

AWK: some text is in there but is not specific to beyond 2.1

<David-MacDonald> +1 I support the revised Charter

AWK: having been able to come to agreement on a set time table yet.

<Ryladog> +1 I support the revised Charter

AWK: remains vague

<Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to talk about timeline for Silver FPWD

JS: Thanks for all the work.
... charters are alot of work to redo in 18 months.

Judy: watching in the background.

<Wayne> q

Judy: removing silver FP working draft time line may be a problem.
... will look at changes in the background wwith Chairs.
... development in regulatory processes and timelines in Europe.

<jeanne> Silver Task Force Timeline <- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yqbKKSDAsQ9KkuXhxa5di30CmZHpj4npZMoUDKRhSNU/edit#gid=0

Judy: some discussion on just doing mobile in 2.1.

<NeilMilliken> I wold not be happy to drop Coga from 2.1

Judy: may be some coordination to be done.

<JF> +1 to Jeanne.

Jean: would like silver FPWD draft in charter

josh: would like to see it but not doing gives us leaway to do more things.
... it has pros and cons
... we need to pick our fights.

JS: not objecting to it.
... looking at first pubic working draft for silver in 20 months

joc: better to leave charter as is.
... make give a stonger base to work from.

JS: Okay, I am not the one who does the work for rechartering, so I will agree to whatever you need to do to clear the objections.

<Ryladog> Later for me

wayne: advantage of coming from EO as it give a different perspective.

<gowerm> +1

<NeilMilliken> +1

wayne: we need to bring other people in

<NeilMilliken> we do want an implementation focus

JOC: don’t understand context.

Wayne: Group is grounded in assumptions. We need a different approach.
... should be an incubator group.

<Joshue108> Just to speak to Waynes point - the current new draft does allow us to incubate in the current WG

Katie: being less percsrptive is valuable

Mike_Pluke: May be to late for European Group

<Joshue108> -q

Judy: W3C has been have a lot of discussion on timeline with the commission.
... may have a flexible dodge.
... things are complicated.
... agrees with josh on FPWD of silver.
... incubate in WG
... charter is in member discussion.
... WG may get to look at changes soon.

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask Josh how do we push back to the pro-incubation forces if we don't have a deliverable in this charter's time-frame?

<Zakim> Judy, you wanted to mention something about the process, also to support Josh's comment about "until Silver is clear"]

JF: Is AC rep

<Ryladog> +1 to Josh

JF: how will incubation silver in WG work.

<NeilMilliken> Can I encourage people to make suggestions on my comment on WCAG 21 Issue 36 Clear controls https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/36

JF: if in WG need deliverable.

josh: things have become conflated.

<Judy> https://www.w3.org/Guide/standards-track/

josh: incubation in WG provides flexibility.

judy: W3C has a process for Rec Tack works.
... currently is a debate on incubation in WGs
... Incubation inside of WGs is allowed in some circumstances, according to best practices published by W3C in Nov 2016..

<Zakim> Judy, you wanted to comment on the "best practices" doc and to comment on the "best practices" doc, and to speak to the question of confidence

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to ask Katie what she is proposing with regard to including a WCAG 2.2 in the charter. Not clear what she was suggesting.

AWK: 3 FOs.

we are well positioned to get that down to 1 FO

<Judy> [JB w3c has to look at all points raised, and fairly weigh the pros and cons of the different perspectives. this is the process that's been going on, also taking into account the discussions that the wcag wg had already had.]

<David-MacDonald> Could all those who do audits for a living write "me"? I don't think there are many of us.

wayne: we should fo due diligence to bring new people into WG.

Katie: We will get more feedback and input if we put out at risk SCs

<David-MacDonald> I can go

<NeilMilliken> I can go after David

'Proposal for modifying existing SC' https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/

<alastairc> sorry, when?

<Mike_Pluke> I can go when ready

Update from SC managers

<erich> I can go, when ready

<David-MacDonald> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/58

Laura: I can go any time

David: closed 57. Will be covered in 58

<marcjohlic> I can give a brief update on #62 and #70 also

<David-MacDonald> Linearisation: A mechanism is available to view content as a single column, except for parts of the content where the spatial layout is essential to the function and understanding of the content.

David: came up with some language that may work

<gowerm> +1 for Alastair as a great guy to work with

One exception

scribe: has done a pull request.

wayne: are the tables in exceptions.?

david: yes

<Joshue108> Ok - so the show and tell q is David, Neil, Alastiar, Mike, Laura, Erich, Marc

<Jim_S> Add me to the end of thw show and tell queue please

<Joshue108> PR ready for Issue 58

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask about what would happen if content was laid out in <table role="presentation"> - tables can be linearlized (I have a browser plugin already that does that)

<Detlev> Wonder when form fields would be unable to be wrapped into a single column

JF: what happens for role=presentation?

David: exception is for data tables

<Joshue108> Its not

<Joshue108> please keep comments short or put it in the GH issues

David: will work on it in understanding doc

Neil: Issue 36: text is ready

<alastairc> JF, I think that comes down to 'essential for the use', if it uses presentational then the data table isn't 2D.

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/36

Neil: standard control needs a definition

David: had anyone been loing at 36 and 9 overlap?

<David-MacDonald> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/9

Josh: commnent on the issue.

Neil: Working on clear purpose now.

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/39

Neil: hope it is ready nex week.

<Joshue108> s/https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/39/https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/55

<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/77

AC: Reflow content looking good.

<NeilMilliken> Clear Purpose https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/55#event-923293510

AC: update to resize text.
... lots of discussion.
... post to the list any commnets.

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/9

AC: also working on #9

<Glenda> And I’ve not had a chance to work on #10 in the last week. I do have a number of comments to think thru. I was able to resolve/respond to 22 comments so far. My notes (of what I accomplished so far) are here: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1#Glenda_Sims_.28.40Goodwitch.29

<Joshue108> great - thanks Glenda - next week?

<Glenda> Yes…put me on the queue for next week :)

<Mike_Pluke> Consistent Identification and Styles https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/28

<Mike_Pluke> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/48

Mike: has 2
... issue on 28 alot adds to 324

<Joshue108> Change on request https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/48

Mike: idea to split it.
... adding to SC or add exceptions?
... would like WG advice.

<David-MacDonald> do we have a definition of primary modality?

Mike: could add a note?

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/

Josh: this weeks survey is how to handle adding to SCs

<alastairc> Judy - The direct link to the screencast is: https://alastairc.ac/tests/layouts/resizing-scs.mp4

<alastairc> Judy - From an email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2017JanMar/0202.html

Issue 18 "Animation from interactions" Report


<Joshue108> LC: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/18

<Joshue108> This is the first one - the conversation has been going well.

<Joshue108> LC: Duration and viewport size are the main points of discussion.

Issue 18 Organized Comments


<Joshue108> LC: I've been tracking comments etc

<Joshue108> LC: Here is table so please do have a look.

Issue 78 "Spacing" Report


<Joshue108> LC: https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78

<Joshue108> LC: We don't have concencus on and there is quite a bit of disagreement

Issue 78 Organized Comments


<Joshue108> LC: Wayne has an idea for a union model - so watch this space

<Detlev> what issue are we diascussing right now?

<Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/78

wayne: being able to do spacing is important. as important as text alternatives.

GS: Are we going to let SCs out if they are not mature?

Josh: yes.

<NeilMilliken> I have to drop off

<Jim_S> I can come in next week

Mike: Question to wayne. Maybe use sprites?

wayne: it is not a difficult thing.
... can’t do high contrast.

<marcjohlic> Works for me

<jamesn> just want to correct something about high contrast

<Jim_S> +1

<shwetank> +1

<JohnRochford> +1

<erich> +1

<Jan> +1 to reviewing my SC at the next meeting

<jamesn> it is only windows which removes background images in HC mode - and new versions will stop doing that even

Virtual F2F: Jan 31st

Virtual F2F

AWK: no time will work great for everyone.

<jamesn> what is all day?

josh: all day event.

<Joshue108> tis a Tues

<Zakim> JF, you wanted to ask if it needs to be on the Tuesday

josh: tuesday was proposed.

<Jim_S> What time-zone for the virtual all day?

<David-MacDonald> +1

JS: maybe a monday or friday?

josh: maybe half day.

katie: do a poll.

<alastairc> 1/2 days easier for the time differences, a friday & monday. Suggest dooodle poll

Mike: out that whole week.

'Proposal for modifying existing SC' https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/

josh: have a look at the survey.

<JohnRochford> Link goest to a 403 error

josh: positive responses.

<Jim_S> Take off the "

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/

<JohnRochford> ok tx

josh: thanks all.

<Mike_Elledge> bye

<Makoto> bye

<Joshue108> Start SC Managers Q with Erich and Marc

trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Found Scribe: Laura
Inferring ScribeNick: laura
Default Present: AWK, JF, Laura, Pietro, Kathy, adam_solomon, marcjohlic, Greg_Lowney, Makoto, Lauriat, MikeGower, Jim_S, allanj, kirkwood, David-MacDonald, JohnRochford, Judy, erich, Glenda, Detlev, Joshue108, Rachael, Mike_Pluke, shwetank, NeilMilliken, MichaelC, Wayne, Katie_Haritos-Shea, steverep, Mike, Elledge, jeanne, alastairc
Present: AWK JF Laura Pietro Kathy adam_solomon marcjohlic Greg_Lowney Makoto Lauriat MikeGower Jim_S allanj kirkwood David-MacDonald JohnRochford Judy erich Detlev Joshue108 Rachael Mike_Pluke shwetank NeilMilliken MichaelC Wayne Katie_Haritos-Shea steverep Mike Elledge jeanne alastairc
Regrets: Moe_Kraft wilco lisa_seeman_thaddeus Bruce_Bailey jon_avila

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Found Date: 17 Jan 2017
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2017/01/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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