See also: IRC log
<allanj> Font Family https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/79
<allanj> Resize Content https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/77
<allanj> Interactive Element contrast https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10
<allanj> Informational Graphics Contrast https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/9
<allanj> Reflow to single column https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/58
<allanj> scrible: eric
<laura> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List
<allanj> scribe: erich
JA: Seemed like there were 4 or 5
available to meet next week, 2 for the week between Christmas
and New Years
... Proposing we don't meet for next 2 wks, any objections?
<shawn> next meeting: Thur 5 Jan 2017
JA: Sounds like none, so next meeting will be Thurs Jan 5th
JA: 5 of current active SC's have had comments
JA: Let's start with number 9, and go in numeric order
AC: #9 has been fairly overhauled, description at top does not really match latest version
JA: Have you chatted with Andrew or Joshua?
AC: Yes, they cannot make me
admin on GitHub without losing comments
... My suggestion was to simply lose the description at the
top
<allanj> ACTION: jim review the wiki for Informational Graphic Contrast. Import to Github issue 9 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Review the wiki for informational graphic contrast. import to github issue 9 [on Jim Allan - due 2016-12-22].
<allanj> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Informational_Graphic_Contrast_(Minimum)
AC: Seems it has been considerably overhauled since Dec 1st, and seems to be in a good state
JA: Have the benefits or examples/pie charts changed?
AC: Yes, had to be restructured, so would be good to include the related information
JA: OK, I will slog through that
AC: David also sent around link to spreadsheet he's been developing, he's not convinced that this one is testable, that it's a condition and does not apply across technologies. I will take that up with David
LC: LVTF has had 2 that were accepted
<alastairc> David's spreadsheet, useful to find out what he isn't convinced by yet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XShLFX8fxHYYLn8A6avDwu37w9JfnZCGWvAKBpK9Xo4/edit#gid=0
<Glenda> For Issue 10, I have at least 46 comments to work through, documented at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17uFopFpjdpCB1yHgkz11fEJ8IGYfPioGsvFUX1Zq96k/edit#gid=0
GS: Struggling with where to make
these changes, got rejected on the wiki in WCAG group, so I
have documented every comment I can find in an Excel
spreadsheet - I am up to 46 not including David's latest - so
for issue 10 I have at least 46 comments to work through
... I've been giving them a unique counter, dating them to keep
straight as new comments come in, and also re-sort so I can
look at every comment level
... I have started to work through them, and stopped, because I
don't want to go off on my own. Want to stay in lock-step with
Alastair
... many of same questions from issue 9 are identical to those
being asked for issue 10
JA: So Glenda if you want to edit in the wiki, let me know and I will do updates
GS: I think issue 9 is set at AA, is that true?
AC: Yes, set to match text contrast
GS: The other thing that seemed to be mentioned at Tues WCAG meeting, seemed Andrew and Josh were suggesting we close 9 and 10 and reopen them where the owners are Alastair (9) and Glenda (10) so Jim isn't stuck making the updates
LC: I think they were working so assignees could assign it, but Michael Cooper was doing that
GS: I'll go again and see what I can find, but that's all I have to report right now
JA: Next up, Reflow
... Alastair, not sure you are the SC manager
AC: I had to give this one up,
they wouldn't let me take on so many
... Have a comment from Greg which I have replied to
<allanj> proposed language: All content can be viewed as a single column with reflow except where reflow would cause distortion or loss of information
AC: He likes it, but suggests all
content can be viewed as a single column
... I replied to him this morning, and have not heard back...
inclined to leave it as-is until we get an answer
JA: So if we change the wording
as proposed, does rest of SC still hold?
... I think techniques would stay close, as well as testing
LC: They could go through survey too, and there would be lots of updates
JA: So we have this one, and may
also get some changes on 77
... Resize Content we just talked about, anything else going on
with that?
AC: Don't think so, just David needs to be convinced it applies across technologies
<laura> WCAG Surveys: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/
JA: The only other one we have is 79
JA: Font Family, there were some comments on that
<Glenda> Earlier I said I thought AWK had said we should close the issues on github and have the SC Manager open a new issue. I think I misunderstood. Here is one quote from the WCAG Dec 13 Mtg Minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/12/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html “AWK: SC manager probably should not be editing the proposal but elevating issues and guiding TF lead to make changes in response to issues
<Glenda> ... discussion could happen on git hub but also by email if absolutely neccessary. threads on github are prefereable”
JA: Comments from Liam Quinn, but nobody has been assigned to this one - comment is that SC is unacceptable for non-western fonts
<Glenda> Oh, but then AWK said something about branching: “AWK: sc could restate what they are hear. sc manager empowered to for and manage branch of modifications”
EM: I can pick up as SC manager for Font Family
<allanj> suggested text: suggest, <li>Confirm that font samples appear in the appropriate fonts</li>
<allanj> <li>Select font which appears readable</li>
<allanj> <li>Confirm that the choice is then used to render text.</li>
LC: Just put your name in the comment field, they'll pick it up and assign it to you
JA: Have questions on the testability
<alastairc> Erich: THis is the page -https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1
<laura> SC Managers Phase1: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/SC_Managers_Phase1
LC: There is also a wiki page you
need to also put your name in
... We still need managers for some of our SC
JA: Text Color, Metadata and
Printing still need managers
... Also no comments on these yet, likely due to WCAG orderly
fashion
... I have been looking at the overlaps with COGA, there are 2
- 1 overlaps with 10, another seemingly with several
JR: Who are they (who say there's overlap)
JA: David MacDonald expressed the opinion, not anything official, just helping people out
<alastairc> David's spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XShLFX8fxHYYLn8A6avDwu37w9JfnZCGWvAKBpK9Xo4/edit#gid=1491179377
JA: Spreadsheet has all SC's by
group, has all the overlaps, and several other things, 4 or 5
sheets in there
... That is all that I had, unless we want to discuss any in
more detail or if an SC manager would like to get more input
from the group
... One thing from last week was things needed for Silver
... Shawn, I know you were working on requirements doc
GS: Would value group feedback on overlap between COGA 36 and Issue 10
SH: Jim, let's see if we already have the info in a table, we did something awhile back
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/10
GS: What to do about color contrast for disabled interactive elements
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/36
GS: I am becoming more convinced
that we should not require Color Contrast on disabled
interactive elements for 2.1, but that we should leave it for
preferences in Silver
... I clearly see from a low-vision viewpoint that being able
to tell what a disabled element is, is important
... Hearing enough dissonant feedback that I am thinking we
should delay it to Silver
<allanj> difference between 3:1 and 4.5:1 is not very great
AC: Would tend to agree, unless there is a magic solution. Probably worth calling out as such and raising as one of the discussions at WCAG
SM: Kind of on the fence on this
one
... Would seem almost a AAA
... I can certainly see how people would want to be able to
tell what the controls are, even though they're disabled
... It's a pain for testing, because all the checkers will flag
whether disabled or not
... May be exchanging one problem for another
JR: I can see why you would want to reduce to AAA for low-vision population, but for COGA population it's more important than that, which is why AA
GS: If we force Color Contrast at AA in 2.1, I think we hurt COGA
JA: Shawn had a comment about not
conveying by color alone
... If you have disabled element, is there some other way, or
does that just get in to serious rats nest
AC: May be worth checking current techniques
GS: Could we add to agenda for next time so we could also get Wayne's opinion?
JA: Sure
GS: There just seem to be conflicting needs, which is why I am proposing Silver
<allanj> ACTION: jim add moving contrast of disabled controls to silver and removing from LVTF10 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-93 - Add moving contrast of disabled controls to silver and removing from lvtf10 [on Jim Allan - due 2016-12-22].
JA: I did a table which was the
Lumosity Brightness, trying to remember where I posted it
... Will find the link again for the discussion
<alastairc> Shawn: Good point, disabled elements are mentioned in https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-without-color.html but there doesn't appear to be a good technique or failure for it.
<Glenda> Luminosity Brightness of Enabled/Disabled Form Controls using default browser styling https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Nov/0024.html
GS: Think I have found it in GitHub - reference pasted in chat
JA: I will add that link to 10
<Glenda> This is the table of Luminosity Brightness of Enabled/Disabled Form Controls
<Glenda> using default browser styling http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-SC/luminosity-form-controls.html
GS: Putting in my notes with
anything related to Disabled, Color Contrast, as another piece
of evidence
... I would change it up in the top of Issue 10, and add it to
Resources
JA: I will put it in there, and
let you know where
... Anything else?
HAPPY HOLIDAYS ALL!
<laura> bye
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