See also: IRC log
<Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_Speech_Input
Kathy: M11 email thread on that this week
Kathy: proposed change: All
functionality of the content does not obstruct a user’s ability
to access the commands through speech input.
... objections to changing language?
no objections.
<marcjohlic> Check if all functions designed for input can also be activated via speech
<davidmacdonald> having trouble getting in... will keep trying
I'll rewrite examples including hidden text, mismatched label, single key shortcuts reference and keyboard input reference
<davidmacdonald> I'm in now
Kathy: how to test
Kim: problem is hidden tags aren't appropriate for speech users – in a perfect world there would be a separate place for speech labels and uses would be able to hide them or not
Kathy: I've been talking to
people at accessing higher ground and knowing checks for this.
But we are proposing is to take the new language, put a link to
the email thread and also note that this may be covered under
3.3.2 or 1.3.1 and have it in there is a note for the working
group but submitted as is and let the working group decide what
to do.
... if we are saying that this is something that is covered it
is not apparent to experts I've talked to
... even checking to see that the visual label and accessible
name are the same
David: if that's the problem I'd rather see that in a success criteria
Kathy: there's also problem with
hidden text on the page. I gave the mismatch as a specific
example
... if there is hidden text on a page you can accidentally
activate things or do unintentional things
David: so that's when you're talking about obstructing – to me the label not matching the accessible aim doesn't act like an obstruction issue
Kathy: it obstructs someone from activating that button – they have to go around and use some of the other methods
David: when I read this and I think about obstruction I never think of a mismatched label
Kathy: that's why we are going to
put that language in there – Kim is taking the first stab at
rewriting this one – understanding language
... when I say you need to be keyboard accessible it doesn't go
into all the details about you need to use this key. The
understanding document is something that should be explaining
what this is and what is required and the techniques help
further to make it easier to understand
... do we make the success criteria really granular or do we
have one that covers multiple things
... this is also now impacting mobile – androids new voice
access – I accidentally activated things even though with the
voice access all you're doing is saying a particular
number
... voice access the new beta for the new version of android –
there version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking on the android
platform. You're doing everything by numbers. So it really
reminds me of mouse was browsing plug-in – it's using that
philosophy. You can also say things like scroll down scroll up.
But you can do a lot by numbers. It also works on the web. So
for users who use speech...
... input and what is now viable platform although I'm sure
there are still issues. But you can actually do all functions
now through speech.
... that's where we are on that one and we were just saying
does anybody object.
David: I don't object. I'd like
to see of the top four things are the top five things were
trying to address, make it a little more understandable
... including but not limited to
Kathy: but what if there's a different way of doing it in the future – may be limiting
David: if we want to have something that actually lasts, or something new in two years
Kathy: mobile is changing right now. Android and iOS are actively working on it. So within a year, six months, within that time. We could have some major changes in that
David: sounds good
Kathy: any other thoughts, objections
RESOLUTION: Accept changed language for success criteria, submit to working group with a note to email thread about SC 3.3.2 and 1.3.1 for working group evaluation
Kim: speech input hidden text – if you say one of the words in hidden text you can accidentally activate – you have no idea what's happened
Kathy: it can be area label, hidden text within the button
David: this is like when you do the curb cuts in the blind people can't find the edge of the curb
Kathy: I think were going to have that across cognitive as well. We've always known that things you do can impact other users. One of the things that you are always balancing is looking at what is accessible for group of users – there are issues there that need to be addressed and is worth bringing to the attention of the working group. This is something that is not being addressed
<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/Mobile-A11y-Extension/blob/gh-pages/SCs/m9.md
David: talking about putting up a test page to show people how text works
Kathy: we talked about this last
week
... David, I know you talked about this one being very similar
to the other one
David: there's the machine sensor and the screen sensor. I almost want to say without additional screen sensor permission
Kathy: the other one that we have
was pointer inputs with additional sensors and then we have M10
– difference is touch.
... one requires the use of an additional thing that is not
built into the device
David: you mean pressure sensitive touchscreens, tilt, twist
Kathy: long press, also scrolls down the screen thats covered under M9, I'm using either touch or stylus or other way
David: tilt of pointer, not tilt
of device
... you want to say pointer tilt
Kathy: will change that
Marc: what about angle
David: tilt X – they have an image of it with the pointer tilting
Kim: device tilt, pointer tilt
Kathy: includes pressure, tilt,
twist using a pointer
... pointer pressure, pointer tilt, pointer twist
Chris: just to clarify this is
referring to things like styluses – all pointers
... someone who can't hold the stylus
Kathy: someone who can hold a
stylus but can't tilt it
... one more meeting December 2 to finalize and make any last
changes
<chriscm> Benefit: "Users who can hold a stylus, but lack dexterity to perform precise movements"
Kathy: next week no meeting
because Thanksgiving iin US
... we need testability – suggest language for testability
Chris: specific exceptions for this?
Kathy: No
<davidmacdonald> test 1) test each function with a simple pointer (no pressure, tilt, ext of the pointer)
Kathy: we need to write how we would tested, but not the test procedure
<davidmacdonald> It should work without advanced pointer functions
Kathy: any other changes?
RESOLUTION: submit M9 as modified
<davidmacdonald> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3
<Kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/3
David: trying to provide notification usually through area live – spin things
Kathy: we've got pages busy, but how about page orientation – automatically switching from one page orientation to the other
David: is there any visual indicators of orientation switching
Kathy: fact that the screen is moving – usually showing it tilting
Chris: like an animation
Kathy: new UI interfaces where you have parallax – some of that is also visual indicators saying that there's something happening but it's not readily apparent – there's no programmatic notification of that – there's no way to get it if all you're doing is looking at the content on the page.
David: not thinking that there's something easy to put into this like page scrolling down makes you dizzy
Kathy: to me this is more
notification of page changes
... daylong session a lot of comments came about portrait
versus landscape – switching back and forth and the screen
reader would talk about one thing and then it wouldn't be
available in the next screen. It's the same issue as page
loading.
David: adding or change of orientation
<marcjohlic> +1 approving it
<chriscm> +1
David: change of screen orientation
RESOLUTION: submit M16 as modified
Yes next meeting December 1, no meeting next week because it's US Thanksgiving
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.148 of Date: 2016/10/11 12:55:14 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: Kim Inferring Scribes: Kim Present: scribe Jatin chriscm marcjohlic Kathy Kim David Shadi Regrets: Detlev Found Date: 17 Nov 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/11/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]