See also: IRC log
<scribe> ScribeNick: dom
Anssi: Chrome has an experimental
implementation
... Edge is working on one
... Samsung and Firefox have implementations as well
... Ningxin (Intel) will show a demo of hand tracking from the
Web
... Frank from MS will report on their implementation
work
... Then we will have Louay discussing how to make 360° video
first class citizen on the Web
... we'll go through these talks and then open the
discussion
... any suggestion already for topics worth discussing
Frank: I'll summarize the changes
to the WebVR spec brought in September
... We've looking at how to apply the WebVR spec to
Hololens
... and worked with Mozilla and Google on adapting the API to
more devices
... we've suggested adding VRDisplay.getFrameData()
Anssi: for context, WebVR is a low-level API
<scribe> ... completed by higher level frameworks such as a-frame to make it easy for Web dev to create content
Frank: the good outcome of the
changes to the WebVR spec is that it makes it easier to adopt
to more devices in these frameworks
... other changes to the spec include deprecation of some
methods
... happy to get questions and feedback on the WebVR spec
Anssi: I'll give you a quick
overview of what a high-level VR framework looks like
... [showing a-frame.io and its usage of web components for
declarative VR scenes]
Ningxin: [showing leapmotion
usage in WebVR]
... showing the user's hands in the VR view is very
natural
... and enables to use gestures as a mode of interaction in
immersieve experiences
... MS Hololens has also gestures added to their mixed-reality
experience
... Intel project alloy has also looking at this space
... the device brings depth sensing
... Intel's crosswalk web runtime engine has an experimental
handtracking Web API
... it exposes a gesture API to Web content
... [demo with a depth camera]
... the depth information facilitates the hand recognition
& gesture detection
... [depth sensing capture demo, with hand detection
highlighted]
... VR Head mounted displays come with cameras that can be used
for environment detection
... the 3D detection enables precise mapping of the hand
position
[Louay presenting]
Louay: from Fraunhofer
Fokus
... we are also working on the Web VR topic, focusing more on
streaming and 360° video in the browser and TV sets
... in this slide I show the different ways of streaming and
processing 360 videos
... each coming with their advantages and challenges
... in the 1st case, the server streams the whole 360° content
to the browser and leaves it to the browser to render it
correctly
... the processing component enables to change the current view
port
... the advantage of that approach is that there is low motion
latency when moving the view port
... the second option is to processing on the server side, and
streams the result of that processing to the client
... this removes any requirement from the client
... this is particularly relevant to TV sets - it enables to
play 360 video in HBTV terminal
... where the motion is done via a remote control
... the problems here that network introduces latency
... and it also requires a lot of server processing since each
client needs its own dedicated processing
... the 3rd option works the same way as adaptive streaming
does
... with prepared pre-processed 360° videos on the server
... you do all the pre-processing and push the resulting files
on a static Web server and use MSE to combine the segments on
the client
... there can be different algorithms to prepare the
content
... we need intelligent caching since we have an additional
dimension (time & space)
... [showing a demo of the 3rd option]
... WebVR expects all the rendering to be done on the client,
which isn't quite the case here
... this solution introduces delay which might be problematic
for some use cases
... it's probably more useful e.g. in second screen cases than
HMD, but maybe with intelligent buffering it could be used in
the WebVR context
Anssi: I think you need a lower latency for HMD
Louay: you could play around the quality / latency trade off
Zoltan: what's the latency figure for client side processing?
Louay: the processing on the
client side requires streaming the whole video
... in smartphones and laptops that would work, but probably
not for Chromecast or TV sets
... finishing here with some open questions
... a browser that supports natively 360 video would need to
expose events and information for the viewport
... likewise, MSE likely needs to adapt to 360 videos
Frank: do you support other projections schemes?
Louay: @@@
... 6 viewports ought to be sufficient, but in practice we do
more of those to have a smoother rendering
... this of course requires a lot of storage capacity
Anssi: this illustrates how to bring VR as a progressive enhancement to the Web
Anssi: WebVR is an important
piece of the overall Web & VR space, but it's just one
piece
... there are many other issues that needs solving
... and that's what the Web & VR workshop will be looking
at
... [showing the list VR workshop topics]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/vr-workshop/ W3C Workshop on Web & Virtual Reality, October 2016, 19-20, San Jose, CA, USA
Anssi: topics include adapting to
new input methods, accessibility support
... formats and codecs, declarative content
... 360 videos
... VR as progressive enhancement; in particular, making sure
that Web developers can re-use their skills - content is
king
... there are intersections between AR & VR that the
workshop will consider, but the main focus of the event is
VR
DKA: one of the issues we are
running into in Samsung when it comes to showing VR content is
performance
... will that be covered?
Anssi: sure, that sounds like something we would gladly accept as a topic (and a pull request on the workshop page)
DKA: we're just starting to think
at the issue
... there is a question of how to tackle it at the platform
level
... and then how to make it so that developers create
performance applications
... I think a key is that in VR, performance is a health
issue
Anssi: Frank, how has that been approached in your implementation?
Frank: from our perspective, it's very doable
Cyril: working on an open source
project named GPAC doing video streaming
... there are 2 different topics: interfaces to control the
display and interfaces
... and then one on video processing
... I wonder where W3C stands on these fields
... Note that other SDOs are working on VR
<cyril> https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/MPEG-Virtual-Reality
Cyril: MPEG is working on video
& audio codecs on VR and has started a survey
... trying to identify the need in terms of compression,
streaming for VR
... the results will be presented at the MPEG meeting next
month
anssi: on where W3C fits, that's
part of the question we want to discuss at the VR
workshop
... we will hear from instance from Khronos with Neil who will
be at the workshop
cyril: on media vs api, one thing that I see as needed is accessing the metadata that will end up in media VR files
Mahesh_Samsung: what metadata are you thinking of more specifically?
cyril: e.g. data captured by
sensors during the capture
... the project being used
Mahesh: for instance we want
metadata on 180 vs 360° video type
... we're interested to hear about more specific needs in this
space
Dave_Singer: I also go to MPEG
& 3GPP meetings, and I encourage them to scope more
specifically what they are doing in this space
... and obviously would encourage W3C to do the same
... MPEG will likely be looking at compression and
streaming
... 3GPP at the impact on network
... and W3C should certainly look at the API that can feed the
network needs
Charles: first, it's critical to
have accessibility baked in from the very beginning
... 2nd, the hand recognition demo was excellent, and it would
provide a great way to do sign language interpretation
Doug: do you have concrete ideas on the scene graphs? for declarative scenes
Dom: a-frame.io is a good example of what's possible, and how to use web components for experimentation in this space
Doug: there has been some talks in SVG to make the SVG group a "graphics" WG (with canvas & others)
Anssi: would be good to have someone from the SVG WG at the workshop
Doug: I'll find out
... (but SVG is not appropriate for that kind of stuff in
general)
https://github.com/w3c/vr-workshop
-> https://github.com/w3c/vr-workshop GH repo of the VR workshop page
Anssi: Thanks for joining us! Hopefully this got you a bit excited about the topic
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Lua (?)/Louay/ Succeeded: s/(shucks)// Succeeded: s/open source project/open source project named GPAC/ Succeeded: s/@@@/Mahesh/ Found ScribeNick: dom Inferring Scribes: dom Present: Jonathan_Jeon(ETRI) Charles_LaPierre Sangwhan_Moon Louay Bassbouss Anssi_Kostiainen Jungbin_Kim(Letsee) Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2016/SessionIdeas#Web_.26_Virtual_Reality WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 21 Sep 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/09/21-webvr-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]