ShEx Validation

harold: Required valuesets that are type coded or codedentry. Need to get that into the coding. At the moment if it isn't a simple code I code it as an external valueset.
... One issue is troubling: if a URI does not match the pattern that defined in the FHIR spec, then we cannot tell its type without dereferencing it.

<hsolbrig> http://www.BenefitsInc.com/fhir/eligibility/225476332402

harold: I reported to Grahame what I thought was a problematic URI, but grahame said that it is legitimate, but there is no guarantee that the URI will return compatible content.
... It sounds like FHIR links can point to anything.
... I'm concerned about that. From a validation perspective, if we cannot be guaranteed that a link is of type patient, then we would have to weaken our validation considerably.
... Also, does the validation process need to chase these links before it can do anything?
... I raised this as issue #37

https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/37

<hsolbrig> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/36

harold: And regarding ussue #36, it says a source reference can be a plainURI, a VS ref, or a strucuredef ref. But at the moment the URIs for VSs are frequently not derefable. So we have no way of knowing if it is a good VS ref or a bad structuredef ref.
... So I am proposing a change to the RDF: If it is a VS ref, use a different predicate.

eric: Can that be known from the FHIR XML?

<hsolbrig> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/conceptmap-103.xml.html

harold: In FHIR XML it is just a reference also. IDK if there is a way in the FHIR object model to know.
... The object model has a choice type.

<hsolbrig> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/conceptmap.html

harold: Look there and scroll down to sourceReference in the table
... URIs for VSs are largely non-compliant

<hsolbrig> fhir:link <http://snomed.info/sct>

harold: There is no way that we can parse that snomed URI to determine that it is a VS

dbooth: Discuss with Grahame at 5pm?

harold: Yes, i can join at 5pm.

<hsolbrig> quote from grahame: well, I have an extra feature built into the validator, a mode where you can tell it about hosts and which are restful and which are maybe not

<hsolbrig> org.hl7.fhir.dstu3.validation.InstanceValidator

<hsolbrig> hmm. I see I've only done extensionDomains in this fork

harold: That's a link to his code

james: Why is this being validated? /dev/null is cool, and as long as you never open it, it's fine. If you never touch the ref, why does it matter?
... If the compliance requirement is to validate the world, then you'll need it. But if the requirement is only to validate what you have on hand, then you don't need it.

eric: If we're validating a resource on its own, then you don't do any resource validation, which means that any place where there is a choice of resource type (such as patient or provider).
... One of the use cases we are trying to address is to verify that the references are of the correct type.
... We're trying to figure out if the validator is supposed to cry foul if it cannot determine the type.

harold: Another case the FHIR spec has put in: there is a class of URIs that can be parsed and are expected to be parsed.

james: Then that needs to be part of the conformance requirement.
... If it is not dererernceable then it has to be either intrisically typed or the validation must fail.

<scribe> ACTION: Harold to discuss with Grahame that non-derefable sourceUri must fail strong validation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/06-hcls-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Discuss with grahame that non-derefable sourceuri must fail strong validation [on Harold Solbrig - due 2016-09-13].

harold: But we could add another predicate to indicate the type, but the validation was set up for the intent of the ref to be knowable.

<hsolbrig> RDF conversion generates a type arc if it can parse the URI.

<hsolbrig> Idea that you have the type if don't de-reference and the whole record if you do (w/ type theoretically compliant)

<hsolbrig> Question for FHIR people is, in th case of, say, reference (Organization | Person), do they not want to identify which without following the link.

dbooth: There is some precedent for making the predicates explicit about what values they expect: valueCodeableConcept and valueBoolean, etc. in http://hl7-fhir.github.io/group.html

Shex Protocol

eric: working on a protocol for accessing external shape definitions

dbooth: when do you want to show it off?

eric: For sparql protocol, you can use it whether you have a dedicated graph or dataset or not.
... Or it can work on a default graph that is the union of all named graphs. but you don't have a way to say which of those
... it does.

dbooth: SPARQL Service Description might allow some description: https://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description/

eric: But what happens when you redefine what has been preloaded? Abort, replace?
... Another issue worth considering: whether the query is "validate this node is this shape", or "node1 is shape1, node2 is shape2 ... " and you want to verify it.
... Another thing we can do is a maximal typing, where you compute all the possible types that a thing could have.
... one of the dangers is that if you have resources with all minCardinality of 0, then it is hard to know which one it is.

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/hir:/fhir:/
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No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: dbooth
Inferring Scribes: dbooth
Present: David_Booth EricP James_Anderson Rob_Hausam Harold_Solbrig
Found Date: 06 Sep 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/09/06-hcls-minutes.html
People with action items: harold