See also: IRC log
<hsolbrig> Hello?
hi harold. i hear you when you talk, but you do not seem to hear me.
can you say something?
yes, i hear you
but apparently you are not hearing me
Harold: the examples are missing the fhir:nodeRole triple
https://hl7-fhir.github.io/allergyintolerance-example.ttl.html
dbooth: which examples are missing the fhir:nodeRole triple?
<hsolbrig> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/compartmentdefinition-encounter.ttl.html
<scribe> ACTION: Harold to let Grahame know that fhir:nodeRole is missing from some examples such as http://hl7-fhir.github.io/compartmentdefinition-encounter.ttl.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/30-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Let grahame know that fhir:noderole is missing from some examples such as http://hl7-fhir.github.io/compartmentdefinition-encounter.ttl.html [on Harold Solbrig - due 2016-09-06].
<hsolbrig> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/35
https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/35
<hsolbrig> https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/hl7-fhir.github.io/references.html
<hsolbrig> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/references.html
harold: There's a regex in that page if you scroll down
<hsolbrig> <http://fhir.hl7.org/base/Profile7896271d-57f6-4231-89dc-dcc91eab2416>
harold: With shex I found a URL that was invalid
<hsolbrig> <http://fhir.hl7.org/base/StructureDefinition/7896271d-57f6-4231-89dc-dcc91eab2416>
harold: but it should have had
"StructureDefinition" in it
... In a second example, ConceptMap gives you three choices: 1.
URI. 2. a valueset or 3. StructureDefinition
... But valueset is the one whose type we cannot
determine.
... Nothing in the resource tells us whether it is a bad
resource ref or a good valueset ref
... My inclination is to have a different predicate for
valueset ref than structure def ref.
<hsolbrig> fhir:ConceptMap.sourceReference @<StructureDefinitionReference>
<hsolbrig> fhir:ConceptMap.sourceReference @<ValueSetReference>
harold: At the moment we cannot tell from the predicate what it is supposed to be.
<hsolbrig> fhir:link <http://www.BenefitsInc.com/fhir/eligibility/225476332402>
harold: I Propose that we close issue 35, and open a new issue specifically on this.
<hsolbrig> fhir:link <http://www.BenefitsInc.com/fhir/EligibilityRequest/225476332402>;
harold: But that BenefitsInc URL
is bad also, because "eligibility" should have an initial
capital
... And is supposed to be EligibilityRequest
harold: another issue I encountered: the required valuesets were all type code, so shex validation only did type code validation. But they've now introduced
<hsolbrig> documentreference-example
harold: A valueset that is a
structure (CodeableConcept), so I need to figure out how to
handle it
... The composition status is required, and its a
CodeableConcept.
harold: The other thing Eric and I worked on was non-required valuesets
<hsolbrig> fhirvs:identifier-use ["usual" "official" "temp" "secondary"]
<hsolbrig> fhirvs:optional-vs EXTERNAL
harold: this is how a valueset is shown. EXTERNAL indicates that the shape for that URI is on a server somewhere.
<hsolbrig> fhirvs:optional-vs {}
harold: I'm temporarily changing
them to the empty-shape-expression so that they are always
considered valid.
... Eric is putting together the REST server for shex. we'll
propose a standards minimal REST API.
... So that if you hit an EXTERNAL, the server can know how to
invoke the validator.
james: Is federated shex validators something that you are introducing, or is there a precedent for it?
harold: There's nothing in the shex recommendation at the moment, but what led to it is that eric's parser correctly sees this EXTERNAL thing, and to resolve it I would have had to write a javascript module, but I'm a python guy.
james: You'll have a reference that will be an IRI, most likely http?
harold: The shape spec says that all are URIs. And the REST signature right now, if you want to validate using the server, you give it the shape you want to validate against, the graph you want to validate, and optionally the focus node.
james: And the location of the
server?
... You have no standard for communicating between the
servers.
... In SPARQL you need a SERVICE call with a URL.
harold: We have a shex validation
service that is the equivalent to a SPARQL service.
... We want to make the machinery work, and then if it looks
like a good enough idea, then propose it as a standard.
... One of the parameters that will feed to eric's shex
validator is the URI of a validator. If we were really clever
like SPARQL, we could find what endpoint knows about this
stuff.
james: In SPARQL the URL has to
be the URL of the remote service.
... But this is a different situation. So I suggest you think
about the requirements on the URIs. YOu won't be able to put
blank nodes there, or UUIDs there. They'll have to be http
URLs.
eric: If the EXTERNAL throw away a guarantee performance then that doesn't seem like a showstopper.
james: You cannot use blank nodes, unless you have some resolution process defined.
harold: The resolution is on the shape level. We probably shoulnd't allow blank shape names in the EXTERNAL position.
eric: As soon as you go across the wire, you lose the ability to ref nodes (easily), and the ability to ref blank node shapes. But I don't blank node shapes are a real issue.
james: And you won't be able to ref URNs
eric: Disagree. If I'm using
URNs, I don't need to resolve them.
... If you have a concise bounded description, then you could
use that.
dbooth: James' overall concern is that the mechanism that harold and eric come up with be standarizable (with interop) and the restrictions on the valueset space is clear.
james: concerned about the consequences of doing remote validation of shex server
ADJOURNED
trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 30 August 2016
http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=RDF_for_Semantic_Interoperability#Deliverables_and_Editors
dbooth: Regarding #6, we need to be able to tell people where to download the code to convert between FHIR XML/JSON <--> FHIR TTL
thomas: Grahame said that the HAPI implementation includes RDF.
rob: i don't think it does.
thomas: I could do that with HAPI, if it handles RDF.
<scribe> ACTION: Thomas Lukasik to try running the HAPI or other ref implementations to convert to and from FHIR RDF and document how [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/30-hcls-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Error finding 'Thomas'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/users>.
dbooth: Sounds like we don't need deliverable #9, because grahame designed the examples for good examples.
dbooth: Tony
... Tony's document is the closest we have so far.
eric: What would go into the
ontology page? list of links, descriptions, manifest of what's
in them. Tutorial might be on the same page.
... I see it as being mostly examples.
... Ontology page could be didactic, rather than just
references.
dbooth: Are Harold or Guoqian using the FHIR ontology?
eric: no, only the shex.
dbooth: Need someone who is using the FHIR ontology
thomas: HAPI code does not yet
support RDF.
... But I discovered an executable version of Grahame's
implementation as an executable, and it only requires a SQL
server.
dbooth: If you can get it to run, and convert an example from FHIR XML or JSON to FHIR TTL and back again, then you can declare victory.
thomas: I downloaded it from http://www.healthintersections.com.au/FhirServer/fhirserver.htm
thomas: Article was all about RDF
and how great it is, but in the comments someone mentioned that
RDF is not a format.
... This reminded me of FHIR.
eric: we've side-stepped that issue by putting the word Turtle in appropriate places.
dbooth: I've also used the word "representation" to avoid the word "format".
eric: my concern: there's plenty to do before we need to define one. low priority.
dbooth: Grahame commented last
week that we cannot retain the URI on a root node because
there's no place to put it in FHIR XML or JSON.
... though we could define an extension for saving it.
eric: Can ignore whitespace. You
canonicalize the encoding and data values so you can string
compare the two documents for equality.
... could use ordered RDF.
dbooth: How about if we say that round tripping is RDF-->XML/JSON-->RDF but not necessarily RDF-->XML/JSON-->RDF?
eric: Could order the triples
according to the shex schema
... the validator has an ordered list of triples
... so bnodes would be ordered according to that list (i.e., in
what order they were seen)
dbooth: Are we in agreement that
it is enough for us to ensure rounding tripping from FHIR
XML/JSON to FHIR TTTL and back to FHIR XML/JSON, and end up
with equivalent document, i.e., equal after
canonicalization.
... We do not need to define round tripping that originates
with FHIR RDF and returns to FHIR RDF. There would be some
inherent lossiness in round-tripping in that direction, which
is implied by the canonicalization.
... That degree of lossiness is lossiness of unimportant
information.
... The meaning would not changed. No change to the clinical
information, but some URIs or blank nodes might change
... The meaning would not change.
AGREED: We can take this approach and close issue #34
https://github.com/w3c/hcls-fhir-rdf/issues/34
ADJOURNED
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/nodeRoot/nodeRole/ Succeeded: s/resource/structure def/ Succeeded: s/or EligibilityResponse// Succeeded: s/either // Succeeded: s/set/sets/ Succeeded: s/No-/Non-/ Succeeded: i/Topic: Remaining/Topic: ================== 5PM Call ================= No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: dbooth Inferring Scribes: dbooth Present: Gopi Rob_Hausam James_Anderson Harold_Solbrig EricP David_Booth (5PM:)_Thomas_Lukasik Eric_P Found Date: 30 Aug 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/08/30-hcls-minutes.html People with action items: harold lukasik thomas[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]