See also: IRC log
<jongund> trackbot, start meeting
<jongund> Meeting: ARIA Testing
https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#alert
<scribe> Scribe: ShaneM
<scribe> Chair: joanie
<scribe> Chair: jongund
fred: putting things in the
testable statement document
... using tables
There are some gaps. I don't know what a pattern is or what it means to say something is not in a pattern.
<jongund> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements
cyns: I didn't understand the question
fesch: Under some statements it says "not in a certain pattern"
cyns: Yes, that does mean something...
<fesch> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#menuitemradio
ShaneM: It may well, but not to any sort of automation system. We don't know what patterns are.
fesch: Go look at "cell"
<jongund> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Testable_Statements#cell
fesch: it says "selection pattern TODO" or "invoke pattern TODO"
cyns: basically it means that the invoke pattern is implemented with the default values
ShaneM: if there were a pointer to what an invoke pattern is, then we are laughing.
cyns: I will provide a link to the documentation
fesch: describes the layout
will get rolled up into a JSON object.
as long as it is interpretable by whatever the automation framework is, we should be good
jongund: Why do we need MSAA?
fesch: because it is in the table.
jongund: do we really need to support this? It seems to be very limited.
cyns: an MSAA only implementation would be largely unusable.
fesch: if there is a platform that is mixed, then we would need to evaluate both in order to cover
cyns: Edge is only UIA only
fesch: IAcessible2 is what Firefox. MSAA is legacy. IAccessible2 is not a MS product that is implemented in FF and Chrome and maybe others. UIA is the current MS A11Y API.
jongund: question about "if given"
fesch: that's not used at all in
the conversion
... as far as I know this is how the testable statements are
supposed to be written
ShaneM: I recommend we maintain it
jongund: the information is in the table
ShaneM: then... no need to duplicate
jongund: if it is something we are not using then it is not adding any new information.
fesch: it doesn't add any value
cyns: the information in the "then" clause should be translated into the table too
fesch: I have put notes in about
information that is missing.
... rich gave me some information about where to find other
information in a branch. that's mroe than I wanted to do right
now.
jongund: should the test include information about these non-inherited attributes?
fesch: The reason they are in there because this is new.
ShaneM: I dont think it matters
cyns: you would want to know which thing failed
ShaneM: In WPT each assertion comes out in its own subtest result so you get the information regardless
cyns: You can use the role without the properties. They are not required.
jongund: Are browsers required to
compute indexes or is it just a should?
... most browsers don't do it automatically. So ATs need to do
it independently.
... What do we need to do to get out of ARIA 1.1 CR testing.
The tests should be minimal.
... would it make more sense for MS to have multiple tests?
???: what would this mean if there were multiple tests?
jongund: each code snippet will
generate a test file.
... Does MS framework need separate tests to get results?
joanie: I am waiting for a group decision as to direction before I put in too much work.
jongund: we are going to talk about that next.
fesch: there are thigns not in
the Core AAM and it would be great if we could get them
in.
... colcount, rowcount, some roles.
joanie: all the new stuff is on rich's branch and it not yet merged because some people have not signed off on it yet.
fesch: it is just hard to do
things without the branch merged.
... there are some where there is no change in the mappings. So
there is no ARIA 1.1 testing needed.
... but I might be wrong.
... Some things support a couple of new attributes. When I made
a test I made the role with the new attributes. For example the
only thing to test for menuitem is with the attributes...
<JF> +1 to cyns
fesch: we are only checking the deltas...
JF: we may apply a little reason and logic to the question of "what is tested when something changed from 1.0"
cyns: it seems a little easier to just enumerate the possibilities for the changes roles than trying to figure out what is changed.
JF: I sort of agree with Shane that we should ensure things aren't broken. Especially since it is automated.
fesch: Does anyone have trouble with the format as it is?
cyns: the only question is "do we want to maintain wiki tables"? Would a nested list be easier to maintain?
JF: I find it easier to look at HTML than wiki tables
fesch: The problem is that some tables are uneven.
cyns: I am going to look for a wysiwyg table editor
fesch: its a lot of bookkeeping
jongund: we need to move
on...
... fesch you got started on this. Can some of JF people can
get into this now?
JF: Rich has some statements that need to be done. We are going to look at that, then feed it back to the people in India, and then see how they do with a few example
fesch: all of section 3 is
availabhle to be done. aria properties and state testable
statements. fesch is working on 4.
... if someone wants to work on "none". I think it would be
weird to have only one.
cyns: yes. It needs multiple.
jongund: Can JF pleease share
with the list what people are wokring on so there are no
collisions or wasted effort.
... tomorrow on the ARIA call maybe we can sync up.
jongund: MS is committed to their
tech but only for UIA
... where are we at for other platforms? joanie is committed to
implementing on ATK.
<joanie> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/wiki/ARIA_1.1_Changes
joanie: the testable statements page is based upon the change log.
This other page is way more detailed. That's the one that has all of the good information.
scribe: I basically did a giant diff to build that other page.
jongund: does that page need to be merged?
joanie: you need to at least look at it very carefully.
fesch: who created the testable statements page?
jongund: I did.
... I will go through and integrate joanie work.
... thank you for all that work joanie
ShaneM: I thought we were going to try to get WPT to drive tests
cyns: I thought we were going to use the MS stuff and attempt to integrate with WPT reporting if we had time.
jongund: ShaneM do you have
examples? We dont have a communication channel between the AT
layer and the test window.
... Are there things in the changes to aria 1.1 that would
require more complex "interaction" or state change testing?
joanie: There might be things. I don't know.
cyns: We didnt test them in 1.0 so why would we in 1.1?
jongund: there are some events
that we might need to test. Does UIA have those?
... we are not going to finalize this plan today. can we meet
next week?
ShaneM: let's continue the conversatin via email.
jongund: let's talk in a week.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/jongund/joanie/ Succeeded: s/interate/integrate/ Found Scribe: ShaneM Inferring ScribeNick: ShaneM Present: Joanmarie_Diggs jongund JF cyns ShaneM Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-test/2016Aug/0008.html Found Date: 24 Aug 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/08/24-aria-test-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]