W3C

Payment Apps Task Force Meeting

17 Aug 2016

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Adam, Max, Tommy, Jason, adamR, alyver, Roy, Mahesh, AdrianHB, jnormore
Regrets
Conor
Chair
Ian
Scribe
Ian

Contents


<AdrianHB> /me is running 2 mins late

<adamR> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-method-identifiers/issues/11

---> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2016Aug/0082.html

AdamR's proposal

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/blob/gh-pages/proposals/jsapi.md

IJ: Quick overview and where we are?

AdamR: This proposes something that looks like a service worker (and is modeled after what is done in WebRTC).
... process is spun up after selection by the user
... we have one message in one direction, and one message in the other
... the application has opportunity to do what it wants with a message (within its origin)...including the opportunity to open a window for the user
... (two: one allows for a URL instead of a body)
... "data" is internal detail to the app (allows window to communicate with worker)
... when everything is done, the application sends a message back which the browser turns into a promise resolution

IJ: Feedback so far?

<alyver> I will need a bit more time to review the proposal.

AdamR: Tommy sent feedback and that's been incorporated

IJ: Proposed 2 reviewers then try to integrate into the spec
... How would text need to change before going into doc?

AdamR: Will need expansion

<Zakim> AdrianHB, you wanted to ask if there has been feedback from other implementors?

<AdrianHB> Issue with audio

<AdrianHB> Will try call in again

IJ: (Has there been feedback from other implementors?)

AdrianHB: Aside from Tommy; no. What is spec'd here is similar to Tommy's polypill

<Max> +1

IJ: Volunteers to review?

Volunteers: AdrianHB, Max

AdrianHB: This proposal has triggered some good discussion on the issues list.
... it would be valuable to get MS and Google input on payment apps since it's increasingly becoming clear that we may have to make decisions that impact both.

<scribe> ACTION: Max to review the registration proposal, due 24 August [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: AdrianHB to review the registration proposal, due 24 August [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action02]

<Roy> I can take a look, but this is the first I heard of Adam's proposal, maybe someone can shoot me a pointer

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/blob/gh-pages/proposals/jsapi.md

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/blob/gh-pages/proposals/jsapi.mdhttps://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/blob/gh-pages/proposals/jsapi.md

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/blob/gh-pages/proposals/jsapi.md

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/blob/gh-pages/proposals/jsapi.md

IJ: Anything else today?

AdamR: Feedback!

Origin info

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/27

IJ: Would that be useful?
... what's the design consideration?
... What do we need to do to modify the spec?

AdamR: I don't necessarily object up front but it does raise a privacy issue. Would it have "surprising" properties for users? My first inclination is "probably not"
... adding a field for all methods that has origin information might make sense
... but it might also be payment-method specific and should figure into the payment method spec.
... e.g., for basic not useful; for tokenized useful
... so figures into payment method good practice

(PAYMENT METHOD GOOD PRACTICE NOTE :)

scribe: I wish we had more payment method specs in development to determine

IJ: We have been talking about getting an EMV tokenization spec

Roy: Facebook is looking at a payment method specification involving tokenization

<jnormore> Yes EMV is network tokenization

(Discussion of gateway v. network tokens)

IJ: How do you deal with the privacy issue in the case where it's useful (e.g., payment method includes tokenization)

AdamR: I would like to run the question by the Privacy Interest Group

IJ: In today's payment methods, is origin information available to e.g., card networks?

AdrianHB: Concern is payment app distributor (who is not also the issuer)

jnormore: We have multiple payment gateways and multiple payment methods available, and even the concept of payment apps....we only pass information required to process the payment itself. In some cases we don't pass line item or customer information ... only when necessary to process the payment.

q

jnormore: Isn't it up to the merchant what they want to pass through?

Ian: The user might also care ("I don't want others knowing what ecommerce sites I'm visiting")

Ij: Any volunteers to write up something?

(No)

IJ: I will record in the issue the points on (1) privacy and (2) may depend on payment method

<scribe> ACTION: Ian to put notes on privacy and payment method potential dependency about origin info into the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action03]

Display and selection of apps

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/PaymentApp_Notes#user-experience-descriptions

IJ: Adrian, status of your action?

AdrianHB: Not done.

<Max> +1

Max: I have read the table and have some thoughts.
... one question has to do with whether explicit user consent is required for registration

IJ: What is the scenario?

Max: E.g., site automatically registers payment app when user visits site

AdamR: I think we should provide some guidance here but don't think we should provide anything normative here. Different browsers will have different notions of user protection, and they can validly differentiate themselves.

Max: Ok
... from user experience, most users will be confused about information
... From user experience we could "allow" the browser to automatically register the payment app
... I am ok to provide guidance and leave to browser implementation

https://w3c.github.io/webpayments-payment-apps-api/

https://w3c.github.io/webpayments-payment-apps-api/#registration-and-unregistration

"We expect registrations to happen at various times (e.g., outside and inside of checkout), and with differing levels of user consent to modify their configuration within the user agent. "

"Users visiting a Web site (e.g., merchant or bank) may wish to explicitly register payment apps, which would require explicit consent from the user."

We could add:

"User agents may distinguish themselves by the extent to which they enable users to automatically register payment apps without additional user interaction."

AdamR: That text seems unnecessary; what is under the bullet looks ok to me today

IJ: I think this is too strong: "which would require explicit consent from the user."

<AdrianHB> +1 on requiring consent

AdamR: I think in that scenario (visiting a site) consent is the right thing.
... but I think that during checkout (first sub-bullet) is ok ... I want to avoid language that says "must happen without user consent"

AdrianHB: I think we need to be more explicit in cases where things are happening on the web; less we say outside the web context the better

<AdrianHB> Note: https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-method-identifiers/issues/11

AdamR: I am concerned about malware scenario...don't want implicit registratino

Max: The reason why we should allow browser to register payment apps automatically is because most users will not quite understand the technical details
... we want to improve the user experience

[Move to point 2]

Max: We have discussed a bit ... how do we ensure that a payment app is who it claims to be? How do we prevent fake payment apps?

Roy: Zach's PMI proposal distinguishes open/proprietary methods
... the way you specify each one is different
... open payment methods involve (in the proposal) URNs.
... and proprietary methods are URLs which have origins.
... and browsers would compare origin of the payment app with origin of the payment method to help determine whether it's the right app

Max: We have some other ideas as well that we can write down.

<Zakim> AdrianHB, you wanted to ask about delegation

AdrianHB: What happens if a proprietary payment method owner wants to delegate authority to a third party proprietary payment app?

<Max> +1

AdrianHB: I think that we may need metadata for this
... we need to define how this works and might be for both proprietary and open payment methods

<adamR> +1 to AdrianHB’s point about origin binding being too restrictive — I was planning to put a comment on PMI issue 11 to this effect

<jnormore> +1 ^

AdrianHB: I don't like putting together "identification of payment method" with "getting data about payment method"

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/blob/gh-pages/proposals/jsapi.md

<scribe> ACTION: Max to write up a new proposal (in the proposals directory) about managing authenticity of payment apps [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action04]

-> https://github.com/zkoch/zkoch.github.io/blob/master/pmi.md

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/blob/gh-pages/proposals/zach-pmi.md

[Back to user experience table]

https://github.com/w3c/webpayments/wiki/PaymentApp_Notes#user-experience-descriptions

Max: Would be better for merchant web site to take control of the display of the payment app.
... and we can provide good practice to browsers of how to display but in the end merchants have final control

<Roy> -1

<scribe> ACTION: Max to write up some thoughts on merchant-controlled display of payment apps for selection [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action05]

TPAC

IJ: Anyone available to do payment app demos at TPAC?

Max: W3C staff in China is chatting with us about demos.
... so we are thinking about that.
... we are looking into but can't confirm 100% yet we will have a demo

<Roy> I'm in the same boat Ian

<Max> +1

Next meeting 24 August

IJ: Any regrets?

[Hearing none]

<JasonYANG> thanks

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: AdrianHB to review the registration proposal, due 24 August [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Ian to put notes on privacy and payment method potential dependency about origin info into the issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Max to review the registration proposal, due 24 August [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Max to write up a new proposal (in the proposals directory) about managing authenticity of payment apps [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Max to write up some thoughts on merchant-controlled display of payment apps for selection [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/17-apps-minutes.html#action05]
 

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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