See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: chaals
FE: We're in a holding pattern
waiting for ARIA 1.1 - need feedback.
... Rich will send a CfC tomorrow for ARIA, to produce
heartbeats, and a FPWD for the graphics AAM
... I have been trying to recruit people for this group.
RS: Did you ask Elsevier? Oh wait, they aren't W3C members any more.
FE: Also the Diagram Center, at
@@tec. I had hoped Jason would champion instructional diagrams
but he has been too busy to attend the meetings.
... if you know someone who has an interest, please
recruit.
<fesch> s/@@tech/Benetech/
FE: we still have some open action items - please look through them and update / close / do them.
LJW: Followed up with David at Graphical Web conf, and will be there presenting SVG.
[I am presenting SVG accessibility at Accessing Higher Ground later this year]
FE: Doug has a conflict - can people do either Monday or Tuesday?
[I have conflicts on Monday]
LJW: Works for Me.
FE: Let's switch to Tuesdays at the same time
RESOLUTION: SVG a11y TF will have teleconfs on Tuesdays at 2pm Boston time, effective now
CMN: Increased effort on authoring guidance.
FE: Low vision / colour blindness
/ navigation - to they all seem like reasonable things to work
on?
... trying to bring in commercial vendors so people learn to do
things the same way, and don't have to switch between different
techniques.
... Anyone want to think about affordances in charts?
... anything we should start from?
LJW: What's the difference between that and a role?
FE: An affordance is visible as a rule.
LJW: Isn't role an equivalent for that?
CMN: Think that roles are clearly
equivalent to the visual affordances like zoom and pan
controls…
... Fred, what do you want to do with this?
FE: want to make it clear that people can move around a diagram to get tooltips, popups, etc - if you are a keyboard user how do you know that there are interactive parts of this.
RS: You can provide information
about the chart.
... zoom is a good affordance. Something that is visual, should
also be navigable. Imagine navigating along a line to examine
the data points. If there is a tooltip how do people know
that?
... you can't just put everything on the screen, because it
gets in the way.
... we could create best practices for that.
FE: Something to think about.
Instructional diagrams are a case for thinking about it.
... How do we handle a more robust taxonomy? Do we need to have
separate kinds of graphics or put them all together?
RS: There are different kinds of
images - drawings, maps, flowcharts, charts and graphs…
... we may have some abstract roles that can be used in
graphics, and then we allow people to create taxonomies around
that.
... If the WG is a bottleneck to doing stuff, that's bad.
<Rich> ack
RS: we need to allow people to move faster, if graphics were extensible that would be great.
CMN: Start with a concrete approach to developing stuff and seeing if it is accessible, rather than starting with making taxonomies. Making taxonomies is going to lead to lots of unused and complicated work.
FE: How hard is it for a user to transition from one ??? to another?
RS: It's hard.
... the user needs to get to the original functionality.
LJW: Biggest worry about role descripition is that developers will mistake it for a way to do role extensibility.
RS: Role-description is a new
piece of UIA, and in apple platform.
... UIA operates from control patterns.
... "I'm clickable, draggable", and they add localised
role-description to it
<LJWatson> @shepazu WFM
RS: Freedom Scientific doesn't look at that. You need to get back to the role type.
FE: When it comes up in ARIA, and people want to describe a pie chart, how do you do that?
RS: Will you have a taxonomy for pizza?
FE: I would have it in the title somewhere...
RS: But now you mix labels with types. That was a mistake MSAA made…
CMN: Work with concrete examples and see if you can do it already, rather than inventing roles that may or may not be useful.
FE: Where do we get examples of instructional diagrams. Assembly diagrams, explanatory diagrams, …
LJW: We need to make sure we keep roles as things that help know what you can *do* with something, not just using them to add labels
FE: So is role about interactivity, or what?
RS: It is the type of the object.
CMN: Roles identify the type of *interactive* object…
RS: We will have to deal with
interactive or not down the path…
... we have to say what this is for. There are structures like
landmarks or tables.
... if you want to identify something on the screen that
behaves in some way you need to be able to provide an
association for the role-description.
FE: knowing whether something is
a compound object or not, if you can put interactive things
inside each other…
... can a tree leaf have a button in it?
RS: We clarified that
FE: Don't think we ended with clarity
RS: If you use ordered lists to
make a tree and make things presentational, you get
problems.
... In ARIA 2 we want to talk about device independence, and
talk to the TAG about this. I think we are eaerly for this - we
have a problem where things are not device independent at the
moment, but bundling interaction patterns would be good.
... example: you have a keyboard interface, so you have to trap
cvarious keys. But you may want to add voice control, and
gestures.
... keyboard implementation varies across browsers.
... UIA lets you say that things are scrollable, etc. You could
apply that approach to an SVG drawing.
FE: Yes abstracting out the interaction would save a lot of code.
RS: If you're moving a slider,
you need to know what the increments are, so there needs to be
a way to expose that back to the system.
... have web components looked at anything like that?
LJW: not that I know
RS: If you had data that could be put into a page, e.g. for a range control, you could give commands to the application in a high-level manner. We didn't do that in IndieUI and I think it was a problem.
FE: We did this in a project we wrote in Java and then transpiled. You could bind the commands to anything.
RS: not sure
LJW: WfM
CMN: WfM
RS: cannot do that time.
FE: We'll stick with the resolution above.
<fesch> rrsagent make minutes
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) FAILED: s/@@tech/Benetech/ Succeeded: s/affordances/affordances like zoom and pan controls…/ Succeeded: s/LJW/LJW:/ Found Scribe: chaals Inferring ScribeNick: chaals Present: chaals Léonie Brian Rich rich_schwerdtfeger Got date from IRC log name: 13 Jul 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-svg-a11y-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]