W3C

Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference

03 Jun 2016

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Rob Sanderson (azaroth), Doug Schepers (shepazu), Jacob Jett, Ivan Herman, Benjamin Young (bigbluehat), Kyrce Swenson, Randall Leeds (tilgovi), Tim Cole, Shane McCarron, Paolo Ciccarese
Regrets
Ben De Meester, Dan Whaley, TB Dinesh
Chair
Tim and Rob
Scribe
Jacob

Contents

  1. Contents
    1. Minutes
    2. Progress to CR
      1. Issue 227
      2. Issue 257
      3. Issue 247
    3. Testing
  2. Summary of Action Items
  3. Summary of Resolutions


<TimCole> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Minutes of the F2F are approved: https://www.w3.org/2016/05/27-annotation-minutes.html

Minutes

TimCole: any remarks about the minutes from last week?

RESOLUTION: Minutes of the F2F are approved: https://www.w3.org/2016/05/27-annotation-minutes.html

Progress to CR

RESOLUTION: Rob completed a large amount of work on the drafts, progress has been posted

azaroth: update-- two issues opened by Europeana folks, normalization discussion needs to agreed upon, other than these, other issues have been closed
... should be able to quickly close the remaining issues
... ready to go to CR
... vocab still needs some examples added

Issue 227

<TimCole> https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues/227

azaroth: recommendation from internationalization group was that the normalization para be removed unless specific requirements make it necessary
... normalizations might be applied due to our requirements but not necessary to mention internationalization

ivan: propose to close the issue as they (internationalization folks) have suggested

<TimCole> Proposal: for #227 remove paragraph on normalization and close (move to editorial)

<azaroth> http://w3c.github.io/web-annotation/model/wd2/#text-quote-selector

azaroth: want to look at the 2nd para after the table
... can try to lop the paragraph into two in order to separate the normalization from the part describing selection

<tilgovi> Mostly just removing the DOM Strings part, then? And splitting the rest around it?

azaroth: suggesting splitting the para so that the first part discusses normalization and then rephrase the second para so that it doesn't discuss normalization at all

<TimCole> applications SHOULD implement the DOM String Comparisons method. This allows the Selector to be used with different encodings and user agents and still have the same semantics and utility.

azaroth: so first 2 sentences become a para, next sentence is deleted [?], and remainder of paragraph has all mentions of normalization removed

<TimCole> Note that this does not affect the state of the content of the document being annotated, only the way that the content is recorded in the Annotation.

TimCole: suggest we preserve the sentences above and delete everything else
... so that no one thinks that the underlying content should be changed
... opinions? ok, with removing the paragraph altogether, but also ok with preserving stuff about string comparisons as long as we don't provide details on how those comparisons are to be made

azaroth: will make quick changes now, then ...[garbled]
... come back to issue before end of call

ivan: need to close remaining issues, then make a resolution to freeze features, give WG a week to review the documents, so that they can note any glaring problems, with the goal to officially request to go to CR by the end of next week

TimCole: so ok to vote next week so long as WG has been notified to review the documents by the end of today

ivan: yes

TimCole: plans for testing, need to be finalized by next week?

ivan: documents, pubs must be ready, call with director must be set up, that period should be used 100% on testing
... so if possible plans for testing should be finalized by next week

<azaroth> Okay, new version at: http://w3c.github.io/web-annotation/model/wd2/#text-quote-selector

ivan: plans must be written down, as agreed in Berlin

<TimCole> https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Aeditor_action+-label%3Apostpone

TimCole: link posted to issues not yet marked postponed or editorial
... most recent issue is for resource previews in annos

ivan: let's close issue 227, rob has made the changes

azaroth: moved selection to preceeding para, deleted everything else except the dom string mention

tilgovi: dom string comparison recommendation was one of things called out by the internationalization folks as something causing problems
... should not introduce normalizations there

TimCole: so drop the mention

azaroth: should we go ahead and delete the subsequent para which mentions the dom apis

<tilgovi> Shouldn't that next para read "Text Quote"?

<tilgovi> It says Position.

TimCole: deletion doesn't change the substance of the section, just means we aren't giving any help to implementers

tilgovi: would leave in the DOM api's para, otherwise people will use the selector api

TimCole: my sense is that the less we say, the better; whole thing is in flux (as discussed in Berlin)

<tilgovi> Fine for me.

<azaroth> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Remove DOM string comparison, UTF-8, and avoid implications that comparison should be part of the normalization routine

<TimCole> +1

+1

<azaroth> +1

<ivan> _+1

<ivan> +1

<bigbluehat> +1

<tilgovi> +1

<Kyrce> +1

RESOLUTION: Remove DOM string comparison, UTF-8, and avoid implications that comparison should be part of the normalization routine

<TimCole> https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Aeditor_action+-label%3Apostpone

<ivan> https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Aeditor_action+-label%3Atesting+-label%3Aeditorial+-label%3Apostpone+

ivan: is #249 postponed?

TimCole: should be marked editor action or closed

<azaroth> http://w3c.github.io/web-annotation/model/wd2/#motivation-and-purpose

Issue 257

azaroth: #257 -- want to include info in the anno that allows the client to display a snippet or preview to the end user
... ivan has suggested this be postponed, [rob] agrees, don't know what clients actually need to do this yet

ivan: not sure it even needs to be in the model at all

TimCole: doesn't need to be in v.1 of the model

<azaroth> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Postpone #257, lacking information as to what is appropriate for previews of resources

<ivan> +1

<azaroth> +1

<TimCole> +1

+1

<tilgovi> +1

<bigbluehat> +1

RESOLUTION: Postpone #257, lacking information as to what is appropriate for previews of resources
... that leaves us with #247

Issue 247

azaroth: can add a sentence saying that if you have contradictory information from external resources, believe the external resources and not the annotation
... e.g., external resource claims target is html, and anno claims something different, believe that it is html

TimCole: discussion?

<azaroth> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Add to the note in 3.2.1 that information from the resource should be considered authoritative, not the Annotation's properties

<Kyrce> +q

Kyrce: is this a question of content of the resource or its format?

azaroth: not content, just its metadata

<ivan> +1

+1

<TimCole> +1

<Kyrce> +1

<azaroth> +1

<bigbluehat> +1

RESOLUTION: Add to the note in 3.2.1 that information from the resource should be considered authoritative, not the Annotation's properties

TimCole: that seems to be it; 2 issues for testing and 2 issues for pending

<azaroth> Yay! :D

<Loqi> woot

<azaroth> Thank you all :)

ivan; all done, as testing issues don't need to be addressed at this time

<ivan> https://github.com/w3c/web-annotation/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+-label%3Atesting+-label%3Aeditorial+-label%3Apostpone+

scribe: everything else is editor's actions
... my impression is that all of them have been addressed but they need to be closed

ivan: features freeze, call for one week review, then CR next week

<ivan> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The model, vocab and protocol documents are now in feature freeze, and in a one week WG review period to propose them for CR next week (06-09)

<azaroth> +1

<PaoloCiccarese> +1

<ivan> +1

<TimCole> +1

+1

<bigbluehat> +1

<Kyrce> +1

TimCole: discussion?

<ShaneM> +1

<tilgovi> +1

RESOLUTION: The model, vocab and protocol documents are now in feature freeze, and in a one week WG review period to propose them for CR next week (06-09)

Testing

TimCole: will take the testing issues out of order and start with the new one
... ivan noted a need for interoperability testing

ivan: yes, would be nice to demo interoperability via server, in practice -- 1 client pushes an anno into a server and another client fetches that anno and displays it in its own way

<ShaneM> hmm.... I don't think that is a CR requirement.

ivan: whether we have enough implementations to do that, don't know, but would be a good extra

TimCole: like this idea in general, but concerned that the implementations don't have much overlap w/r/t domain, community, or topicality
... e.g., emblem annotation are kind of unique, is testing if they're interoperable artificial?

ivan: understand, shouldn't be a formal active criteria, but would be very nice to demonstrate
... if it can be done, it will strengthen the interoperability of the standard

<ShaneM> protocol testing should ensure that each client sends and retrieves annotations correctly...

azaroth: seems like we should try to have 2 clients and 2 servers where client 1 makes a anno on server 1, copy it to server 2 and have it read by client 2

ivan: testing a singular implementation for the protocol is not the same as testing across multiple clients

ShaneM: however, if have multiple clients and they all pass the protocol tests, then hasn't interoperability been tested?

ivan: need a server independent from the clients

ShaneM: assuming this for protocol tests

ivan: discussed in Berlin to use scenarios

ShaneM: the web platform test infrastructure is a server, so be pointing the protocol tests at that server, then an independent server will have been provided to/for them

TimCole: to be clear, the protocol requires accepting/responding to LDP exchanges, so it didn't seem clear to us that that capacity existed at this tinme

ShaneM: the platform is capable of modeling any protocol that is desired

<azaroth> ShaneM++

<Loqi> ShaneM has 2 karma

<bigbluehat> ShaneM+++++++

<Loqi> ShaneM has 3 karma

TimCole: sounds like we have a better way to do protocol testing than we thought in Berlin
... seems that we still need to test if anno looks the same in two different implementation environments, e.g., Rob's implementation v Europeana implementation

ShaneM: protocol test is next for me, sounds like vocab/model tests are there, so will move on to implementing protocol tests

TimCole: have built some schemas to test the model, is the infrastructure to trigger a run in place?

ShaneM: will post the instructions for how to do the testing to the lists

TimCole: will spend next friday on discussing testing after taking the CR vote

ivan: everyone should take some time to read through the documents

TimCole: will be very good, many small typos lurking
... adjourn

<ivan> trackbot, end telcon

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Minutes of the F2F are approved: https://www.w3.org/2016/05/27-annotation-minutes.html
  2. Rob completed a large amount of work on the drafts, progress has been posted
  3. Remove DOM string comparison, UTF-8, and avoid implications that comparison should be part of the normalization routine
  4. Postpone #257, lacking information as to what is appropriate for previews of resources
  5. Add to the note in 3.2.1 that information from the resource should be considered authoritative, not the Annotation's properties
  6. The model, vocab and protocol documents are now in feature freeze, and in a one week WG review period to propose them for CR next week (06-09)
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2016/06/03 16:14:16 $