SV_MEETING_TITLE -- 31 May 2016

Shervin: Before we start, there was an interesting discussion on punctuation marks on GitHub and I want to start with that.
... What Khaled is mentioning is partly correct.
... The thing is that the Arabic percent sign is used with Arabic numerals, but recently more and more projects are using European numerals.
... But I like that we are receiving feedback from people not attending the meetings.

<Shervin> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/49

Richard: Yes. That’s interesting and is because we have content.

Mostafa: You might remember that we had a similar issue with Persian. I had finished the tables with ICU4J and CLDR, but there were Persian characters missing. So we added characters from a national standard.

Richard: I was also surprised that the arabic percent sign is not listed as part of the Arabic character set in our list.

Shervin: Using these libraries has its issues.
... It’s not easy to update them with feedback.
... Yes, we need to review these characters.
... Also, Richard, I saw your comment on the issue about those quotation marks.
... I’ve trying to advocate their usage in Arabic like in Persian, but they are not very commonly in use.

Richard: I also want to say Arabic numerals are more widely used in some regions than in others.

Najib: About chevron (« »), there differences between official documents, newspapers, and other use cases.

Richard: We might do a disservice to ourselves by tying ourselves too firmly to official sources, which you mentioned might not always be right or up-to-date, or by tying ourselves to what happens on the web and not consider the print.

<Shervin> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pebcAbf9UOL_jRL4zCUQidE7BBj-6S_mA4yLXMf-7yw/edit?usp=drive_web

Shervin: You’re right. For Persian we have a source and could use that. For Arabic this is more complicated.
... For numbers, specifically, Roozbeh and I made a research about how these numbers are used in different regions.
... You can see it in this link.

Mostafa: It’s very interesting that there is this much discussion about characters used in Arabic and Persian, and just these challenges makes it clear that such a table would be very useful.
... But I also want to bring up the question of what is the purpose of our tables here?
... Do we want to put the time in solving this issue with our tables? Or just accept that this issue as it is and make it clear in the goals of our tables?

Richard: We can choose a middle way.

Shervin: We can get busy with these tables forever.
... We can try to find what is common and just say that.
... We can have notes about some of those characters.

Richard: We can say these are characters “commonly” used.
... That alone can loosen their situation a little.

Shervin: We can mark only the ones that need, and not affect all the tables with that.

Najib: The question is what is the use of these tables?

Shervin: Yes, we can follow CLDR and whenver there is a controversy about a character add a note for that one.
... Mostafa, do you agree with that?

Mostafa: +1

Richard: So, the next step is to wait for Khaled?

Shervin: +1
... We can also keep the issue open to deal with the missing characters, even though this is not a priority now.

Richard: We can have separate characters for CLDR, and other standards and mark under those columns.

<Shervin> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open

Shervin: Action-7 is for Najib, and I saw a PR. Is that PR (#48) about this action item?

Najib: Yes.
... You can reject this PR.

Shervin: One question for you, Najib: can we use these images, copyright-wise?
... Are their sources clear?

Najib: I’ve used my sources, like scans from books.

Shervin: It would great if you could add a note about which book(s) these are from.
... I add an action item for myself to review these changes.

<Shervin> ACTION Shervin Check to see if PR#48 from Najib is mergable as is

<trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Check to see if pr#48 from najib is mergable as is [on Shervin Afshar - due 2016-06-07].

<Shervin> ACTION Najib to provide the sources for images of PR#48

<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Provide the sources for images of pr#48 [on Najib Tounsi - due 2016-06-07].

Najib: No, I’m focusing on action-37.
... If somebody wants to help, they’re welcome.

Shervin: Still working on action-46.

Richard: Re action-52, I got some comments about various people from W3C. The advice is what you might expect:
... Pay attention to the license of the images, ask for permission from license holders, don’t use too many images from a single source, and other common sense advices.

Shervin: There is also a “fair use” way of using small content from sources.

Najib: We can use images from Wikipedia.

Richard: Not always. We should pay attention to the licenses of those images.

https://imageoptim.com/mac

Richard: We also need to optimize our images for better sizes.

Shervin: So, we can close this action after Richard’s comments.

Mostafa: No update on action-55.

Shervin: Small update for action-56: I’m working on line break and am will have first draft very soon.

<Shervin> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues

Najib: The document does not check with the HTML validator.

Richard: It should.

<Shervin> ACTION Shervin Check the HTML validation of the current draft