See also: IRC log
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0157.html
<scribe> scribe: fesch
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0157.html
<cyns> Automated accessibility testing with webdriver, open source from Microsoft https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2016/05/25/accessibility-test-automation/
rs: ARIA & HTML synchronization
rs: we have dependencies on ARIA
1.1, we need to get it out the door
... SVG 2 may go to CR end of June
HTML may go to CR in June
rs: if there are really pressing
issues... or something we need now, then we should consider
ARIA 1.2
... and do that in parallel with ARIA 2
mk: what about strictly editorial stuff?
rs: I don't want to revisit stuff
like presentational at this point
... that is a big editorial change
mk: concern is on taking resources away from testing...
<MichaelC> rs: yesterday met with TAG
<MichaelC> need to look at Web Components in ARIA 2.0 context
<MichaelC> we have the skills to make something pervasive
<MichaelC> will need all hands on deck for it
<MichaelC> want to get 1.1 out soon soon soon
<MichaelC> so we can focus on that
<scribe> scribe: fesch
mc: I would only like to do something with clear requirements and no scope creep
<jamesn> +1 to no 1.2
cs: ARIA 1.1 was a distraction to 2.0 lets not do it again
rs: I think James Craig valuestep thing is really for 2.0
mk: If you map out a plan for
2.0, and we have low hanging fruit, can be branch and publish a
1.2?
... that way the ATs are not afraid to implement it
cs: folks have been implementing before it comes out.
rs: would need adequate consensus
jn: can get everything in 2.0 if we do it in a reasonable timeframe
<cyns> +1 to jamesn on keeping the scope of 2.0 realistic
rs: need to work with lots of groups... working with TAG...
<MichaelC> mc: need ARIA 2.0 requirements at the *front* of the process
rs: we have consensus that we need to focus on 2.0
<MichaelC> we told TAG yesterday we´d start a draft end of summer 2016
rs: book your rooms now
mc: I have heard airfares will go up
May 12 CFC posinset, setsize
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2016May/0015.html
rs: if we accept the modification
for link
... will satisfy SVG folks
mk: I didn't understand the last
requirement
... I read it as hiding the hiding abstract roles
mc: removing the taxonomy from
the spec is editorial action
... to make it less confusing
... there are abstract roles that only exist to support the
taxonomy
mk: that was postponed
rs: you can still remove the drawing
mc: the taxonomy still exists...
rs: and we did some cleanup on
the taxonomy
... we agreed to take menuitem radio... for posinset
setsize
mc: I've made the changes -
rs: there was a discussion on
presentational children, my holdup is treeitem
... we don't have an alternative for tree
bg: I tested this morning in chrome and safari
mk: it was written and mapped as
presentational
... people want to use it, but it isn't mapped that way
rs: are you suggesting they use treegrid?
mk: it would take major content
by an AT to make it readable with a reading cursor
... there are several techniques that provide access from a
treeitem - a parallel structure
rs: people are creating trees with stuff inside of them
fe: folks do not understand that
treegrid would be a tree
... a treegrid is a table with twisties
mk: a tree item that contains
complex stuff is like a one column table
... the content can be controlled by the tree but not owned by
the tree
rs: we did the same thing where a grid can have one column
gb: I have done treegrid controls
rs: with a single column?
gb: at present AT present a treegrid like a X
mk: that kind of thing that was meant for the us to tell AT's to fix
rs: if you have an action item for treegrid
mk: it is in our plan
... we will break grid out into two flavors... to show real
world implementations
rs: if the APG makes an example can we except it as is?
fe: what is the timing?
mk: this year
... the APG will prioritize and gridtree in the next 6-8
weeks
jn: what people want is to put controls in - and the don't have support for it
mk: if you expect things to in something, then we need a pattern on it
jn: we could have a property on
it that says we have complex children on it would be one way to
go
... i don't like it.... (sigh)
decision: to accept the CFC from last week on action-2006
<Rich> ACTION: Joanie implement the presentational children resolution from action-2006 See CFC: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria-admin/2016May/0016.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/05/26-aria-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2071 - Implement the presentational children resolution from action-2006 see cfc: https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-aria-admin/2016may/0016.html [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2016-06-02].
rs: Separator role
... we want to feature freeze by June 9 and review by June
16
... inconsistencies, wording issues... not new stuff
... I will be out for 3 weeks
... I may be in the June 16 call...
mc: may need an email...
... I can get consensus on June 9 - or June 2 and Rich as the
chair to accept the decision
mk: what if someone finds an important question - does Rich need to be present?
mc: I am not going to make big
decisions - if we are not getting consensus - then I might
delay until Rich gets back in --
... I know there are things that don't have consensus, but I
don't want to drag rich away from vacation
mk: are there other things in master branch what still needs to be done
rs: during my vacation when do you want me to check in?
mc: please check in on June
14
... after the June 2 meeting I will put out a CFC
... did we approve the primer?
RESOLUTION: to publish ARIA 1.0 Primer and 1.0 Practices as retired
mk: that is documents has documents removed
jg: if you give us permission for a subgroup, we can have a meeting for testing
rs: go do it
mc: the W3C has rules that docs must exist forever...
rs: Separator role
<mck_> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2069-separator/aria/aria.html#separator
mk: rewrote 2 types of separator
- static and interactive - like a widget
... will add one row to the core AAM
... you name a separator according to what would be expanded or
collapsed
... we have a windows splitter pattern in the APG
fe: typo in static
mk: will add valuetext
... I didn't add text, but is should only give a value when it
uses a variable
... if it isn't a boolean, then it would be weird to say
expanded 100%, collapsed 0%
... have two changes typo static and and valuetext to table
RESOLUTION: accept proposal for action-2069
rs: how long do you want the CFC?
mc: 6 days is fine
<MichaelC> ARIA Practices as staged for retirment: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/
<MichaelC> ARIA Primer as staged for retirement: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-primer/
<MichaelC> both modulo frontmatter changes for the TR pub
rs: Keyboard shortcuts
mk: do you want to look at the branch
lw: wanted to ask about password role
jf: we have open actions on this
rs: word from security folks was to get the security markers on the page
<JF> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2062
lw: I am still worried about it
rs: we have AT vendors going to render the text
lw: I think this is a security problem no matter what
rs: right now they will read whatever, if it says role password
jf: two weeks ago we were going to get text into the spec
rs: I would like a proposal on what wording you would like in the spec
<JF> ACTION: JF to provide draft text for password by 6/2/16 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/05/26-aria-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2072 - Provide draft text for password by 6/2/16 [on John Foliot - due 2016-06-02].
js: there is precedent going back to 2014 that AT behavior can be an exit criteria
rs: put it on the agenda for next week
<LJWatson> Janina can you post a pointer to that decision? Thanks.
rs: if it is only a warning for authors, that should easily be done
jf: right
<MichielBijl> ???
mc: I can do a CFC, but chair needs to ratify it
mk: I will do the keyshortcuts tomorrow
<Zakim> LJWatson, you wanted to ask about status of password role.
mb: why don't we move password into 2.0
<clown> jamesn text: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016May/0159.html
<JF> We did not have a "review", we received a number of comments fromvarious members of the security WG
rs: we have consensus, and we
have a problem because AT are doing keyboard echo
... we discussed this for weeks
... we have it in HTML 5 people are using it and AT's are doing
the wrong thing
... they need to speak the rendered text, it is a better
situation - we had a security review...
lw: where is the CFC?
rs: we went to the security group, nothing else came in
<MichielBijl> http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-aria-minutes.html
<MichielBijl> http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-aria-minutes.html#item02
<MichielBijl> Resolution from those minutes: RESOLUTION: Password role brings value even if not fully supported, UAs should map same as they map input type=password, want AT SHOULD but not MUST to enhance
mc: we can put it in the test suite...
lw: Rich said AT testing is not part of the exiting testing
mc: we can include this on testing
rs: mc you can add this in the testing, we need two implementations on the password role to exit
mk: action-2039 is all editorial,
and if mc can do CFC then that is OK
... I would prefer if people would review it
rs: presentational roles section
-
... we have presentational native host semantics, is there any
objection putting it in as is?
action-2044
<trackbot> action-2044 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Separate out text from role="presentation/none" so that a single location may be referenced in core-aam. -- due 2016-04-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2044
<Rich> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/action2044/aria/aria.html#conflict_resolution_presentation_none
rs: example was not right, fixed that
+1
<clown> +1
mk: does this also have to do with strong semantics?
rs: in the case where you have
host language elements that were presentational
... if you have a SVG circle and no ARIA properties or role, it
is treated as presentational
... if you put a role on it, then it isn't presentational
mk: in this same section there are things about strong semantics
rs: some SVG elements like title must always be presentational
mk: that basically is saying that implicit role is presentational
rs: right and you cant change it
mk: if something has strong semantics, and a user marks it up non presentational then the UA must honor it
rs: no second paragraph
mk: in conflict ...
<clown> https://rawgit.com/klown/aria/action2044/aria/aria.html#implicit_semantics
<MichaelC> Test statement and feature at risk for password: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/CR-pub/aria/aria.html#sotd
<mck> Host languages may document features that cannot be overridden with WAI-ARIA (these are called "strong native semantics"). These can be features that have
<mck> implicit WAI-ARIA semantics, as well as features where the processing would be uncertain if the semantics were changed with WAI-ARIA. Conformance checkers
<mck> may signal an error or warning when a WAI-ARIA role is used on elements with strong native semantics, but as described above, user agents must still use
<mck> the value of the semantic of the WAI-ARIA role when exposing the element to accessibility APIs.
mk: need to change the sentence
rs: with that exception is it OK?
RESOLUTION: accept proposal for action-2044 with the modification in Conflicts with Host Language Semantics concerning permanent presentational elements
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/last requirement/hiding abstract roles/ Succeeded: s/ARIA PARIA/ARIA/ Found Scribe: fesch Inferring ScribeNick: fesch Found Scribe: fesch Inferring ScribeNick: fesch Present: Janina Rich_Schwerdtfeger Michiel_Bijl LJWatson MichaelC matt_king Joseph_Scheuhammer JF JamesNurthen Bryan_Garaventa jongund JaeunJemmaKu Regrets: Joanmarie_Diggs Found Date: 26 May 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/05/26-aria-minutes.html People with action items: jf joanie WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]