See also: IRC log
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
<jeanne> scribe: jeanne
<laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/pull/49
JA: Andrew Arch wrote a paragraph to add in
<allanj> "In considering the needs of users with low vision, it includes several issues that overlap with the needs of some people with some cognitive disabilities [@@ such as some forms of dyslexia and learning difficulties]."
JA: Laura said if we call out the
needs of people with dyslexia and learning difficulties, we
should identify them, but we could add a link to the CoGo
document.
... Any objections to adding that phrase and referencing a COGA
document.
s/COGA document. /COGA document?
AWK: I had a conversation about
that issue. The task forces need to identify where there is a
overlap in addition to WCAG looking for overlap.
... we want to know which of our new success criteria are
shared in one way or another.
JR: The only COGA document that references low vision is aging and dementia.
<JohnRochford> Low vision referenced in https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis/Aging_and_Dementia
WD: The most relevent would be the intersection with Legibility.
JS: Aren't we just looking for definitions of dyslexia and learning difficulties? We could link to the most basic document that covers those topics.
<JohnRochford> Dyslexia definition in https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis/Dyslexia
https://w3c.github.io/wcag/coga/gap-analysis.html#dyslexia
<JohnRochford> https://w3c.github.io/wcag/coga/gap-analysis.html
RESOLUTION: Add clause specifiying dyslexia and learning difficulties and link to the definition in Coga Gap Analysis.
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/50
AWK: I think we should not link to the definition of dyslexia. We want people to stay in our document.
JA: Someone commented that we did not have enough references.
WD: I can do a lot of the library work to put in references.
JA: Let's hold off until we get to that comment. I don't want you to do work that we aren't going to use.
WD: It's well within the mainstream of research.
JS: We can put it in with an editor note. If they aren't ready before we are, we can pull the link. Otherwise, we will need the editor note anyway to be able to update the link to the TR version.
JA: This has to do with 3.3.3 and 3.5.1. Shawn suggested we expand 3.5.1 to include bold and italics.
https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/50
JA: Before the call, I merged them and suggested a change to the last sentence
<allanj> 3.5.1 Element-level Customization
<allanj> Some people change the way certain elements are displayed to make it easier to distinguish types of text, such as headings. When markup is used according to specification, it provides semantic meaning. This in turn helps a person set a customized visual presentation for headings and links, as well as, other elements. If all text is increased proportionally, headings can become very large and...
<allanj> ...bigger than people need to read the main body text. Some people prefer for headings to be the same size as paragraph text. They use styling such as font, color, and indentation to distinguish heading levels and other semantics.
<allanj> Some people change the way certain elements are displayed to make it easier to distinguish types of text, such as headings. When markup is used according to specification, it provides semantic meaning. This in turn helps a person set a customized visual presentation for headings and links, as well as <strong>, <em>, <cite>, and other elements. If all text is increased proportionally,...
<allanj> ...headings can become very large and bigger than people need to read the main body text. Some people prefer for headings to be the same size as paragraph text. They use styling such as font, color, and indentation to distinguish heading levels and other semantics.
WD: We need to be able to take off italics where it is unnecessary. It is very difficult to read text that is all in italics.
JA: Good point. Let's finish 3.5.1 and then address that in 3.3.3
<Wayne> +1
<laura> +1
<JohnRochford> +1
RESOLUTION: Accept the wording above for 3.5.1.
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/54
<allanj> 3.3.3 Style
<allanj> For some people, it is difficult to read blocks of text [link to def] that is all italicized or underlined. For some people, bold text is easier to read. (This applies to blocks of text, not individual words or phrases.)
<allanj> User Need - Style: Users can change the text style (underline, italic, bold) of blocks of text.
JA: The user need didn't change,
but the explanatory text did.
... the definition would come from WCAG
JR: Is this blocks of text or the
entire document?
... we are explaining what we mean by bold text, and we say
that it applies to blocks of text.
... we are saying that people may want to bold the block or
turn it off.
... that is another overlap with COGA -- some people with
dyslexia find italics very hard to read.
JA: Take out the parenthesises, but not the content.
WD: Some people prefer bold text or a different font that is easier to read.
JS: Isn't this covered elsewhere?
WD: But it is needed in this area because it allows you to make the italicized text a different font that can be discriminated as different from the main font.
<allanj> For some people, it is difficult to read blocks of text [link to def] that is all italicized or underlined. For some people, substituting bold text or a different font for italics is easier to read. This applies to blocks of text, not individual words or phrases.
<JohnRochford> +1
+1
<laura> +1
<Wayne> +1
RESOLUTION: Reword explanatory text for 3.3.3 to add: For some people, it is difficult to read blocks of text [link to def] that is all italicized or underlined. For some people, substituting bold text or a different font for italics is easier to read. This applies to blocks of text, not individual words or phrases.
<JohnRochford> I have to go at 11:25
<allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/54
JA: Comment that 4.5:1 Contrast
ratio should apply to borders and grids.
... I listed all the HTML and CSS elements that it applied
to.
WD: Could we put "borders used to indicate focus"?
AWK: WCAG 1.4.3 applies to text and images of text. This wouldn't apply to borders and grid lines.
<allanj> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#margins-and-borders
<allanj> scribe: jim
<allanj> scribe: allanj
3.4.5 only applies to borders around blocks of text.
should we make 3.4.5 apply to form controls, tables, grids, etc.
WD: +1
awk: 3.4 is about spacing, not sure we want to add coloring and size of borders
ja: since 3.2.1 is about text contrast, and aligns with wcag. should we create a separate user need.
lc: a separate user need would be useful
ja: leaning toward separate need.
awk: there is a gap. there is a need.
wd: can change styles on form controls, but can't change radio button and checkboxes.
ja: what to call the section
<scribe> ACTION: Wayne to write User Need on "Non-text contrast" - [can change the name, border, grids, etc] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Write user need on "non-text contrast" - [can change the name, border, grids, etc] [on Wayne Dick - due 2016-04-27].
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