13:49:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
13:49:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-lvtf-irc
13:49:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:49:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:49:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:49:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:49:47 <trackbot> Date: 20 April 2016
13:49:56 <allanj> chair: Jim and Andrew
13:50:08 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
13:50:08 <Zakim> agenda cleared
13:50:22 <allanj> rrsagent, who is here?
13:50:22 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'who is here'
13:50:32 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
13:50:32 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
13:50:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, trackbot, jeanne, MichaelC, allanj
13:50:47 <allanj> present+
13:50:51 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
13:50:51 <Zakim> Present: allanj
13:50:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, trackbot, jeanne, MichaelC, allanj
13:51:04 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
13:51:04 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:00:04 <allanj> regrets: Erich, JonA
14:03:47 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 49 2.1 Scope - cognitive disabilities
14:03:49 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 50 Italics, bold, underline - how to expand 3.5.1 to cover links, em, strong, span, etc.
14:03:50 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 54 grid lines, field borders, etc.
14:19:39 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
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14:35:15 <allanj> regrets+ scott, alan
14:35:27 <jeanne> present+ jeanne
14:35:28 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
14:35:39 <jeanne> scribe: jeanne
14:35:48 <laura> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List
14:35:54 <jeanne> agenda?
14:36:02 <Wayne> present+ Wayne
14:36:08 <jeanne> zakim, take up next item
14:36:08 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Issue 49 2.1 Scope - cognitive disabilities" taken up [from allanj]
14:36:13 <laura> present+ Laura
14:36:23 <allanj> Topic: Issue 49 2.1 Scope
14:37:12 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/pull/49
14:38:19 <jeanne> JA: Andrew Arch wrote a paragraph to add in
14:38:40 <allanj> "In considering the needs of users withy low vision, it includes several issues that overlap with the needs of some people with some cognitive disabilities [@@ such as some forms of dyslexia and learning difficulties]."
14:39:37 <Wayne> s/withy/with/
14:40:02 <jeanne> JA: Laura said if we call out the needs of people with dyslexia and learning difficulties, we should identify them, but we could add a link to the CoGo document.
14:40:29 <jeanne> JA: Any objections to adding that phrase and referencing a COGA document.
14:40:44 <jeanne> s/COGA document. /COGA document?
14:41:24 <jeanne> AWK:  I had a conversation about that issue.  The task forces need to identify where there is a overlap in addition to WCAG looking for overlap.
14:41:44 <jeanne> ... we want to know which of our new success criteria are shared in one way or another.
14:42:07 <jeanne> JR: The only COGA document that references low vision is aging and dementia.
14:42:39 <JohnRochford> Low vision referenced in https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis/Aging_and_Dementia
14:42:52 <jeanne> WD: The most relevent would be the intersection with Legibility.
14:44:14 <jeanne> JS: Aren't we just looking for definitions of dyslexia and learning difficulties? We could link to the most basic document that covers those topics.
14:44:47 <JohnRochford> Dyslexia definition in https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis/Dyslexia
14:46:30 <jeanne> https://w3c.github.io/wcag/coga/gap-analysis.html#dyslexia
14:49:01 <JohnRochford> https://w3c.github.io/wcag/coga/gap-analysis.html
14:50:33 <jeanne> RESOLUTION: Add clause specifiying dyslexia and learning difficulties and link to the definition in Coga Gap Analysis.
14:50:58 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
14:50:58 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue 50 Italics, bold, underline - how to expand 3.5.1 to cover links, em, strong, span, etc." taken up [from allanj]
14:51:07 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-lvtf-minutes.html jeanne
14:51:12 <allanj> topic: Issue 50 Italics, bold, underline
14:51:13 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/50
14:51:34 <jeanne> rrsagent, make logs public
14:53:41 <jeanne> AWK: I think we should not link to the definition of dyslexia. We want people to stay in our document.
14:54:07 <jeanne> JA: Someone commented that we did not have enough references.
14:55:30 <jeanne> WD:  I can do a lot of the library work to put in references.
14:55:52 <jeanne> JA: Let's hold off until we get to that comment. I don't want you to do work that we aren't going to use.
14:56:06 <jeanne> WD: It's well within the mainstream of research.
14:58:28 <jeanne> JS: We can put it in with an editor note. If they aren't ready before we are, we can pull the link. Otherwise, we will need the editor note anyway to be able to update the link to the TR version.
14:58:42 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
14:58:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-lvtf-minutes.html jeanne
14:59:11 <jeanne> present+ AWK, JohnR
15:00:18 <jeanne> JA: This has to do with 3.3.3 and 3.5.1.  Shawn suggested we expand 3.5.1 to include bold and italics.
15:00:30 <jeanne> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/50
15:00:44 <jeanne> JA: Before the call, I merged them and suggested a change to the last sentence
15:01:24 <allanj> 3.5.1 Element-level Customization
15:01:26 <allanj> Some people change the way certain elements are displayed to make it easier to distinguish types of text, such as headings. When markup is used according to specification, it provides semantic meaning. This in turn helps a person set a customized visual presentation for headings and links, as well as, other elements. If all text is increased proportionally, headings can become very large and...
15:01:27 <allanj> ...bigger than people need to read the main body text. Some people prefer for headings to be the same size as paragraph text. They use styling such as font, color, and indentation to distinguish heading levels and other semantics.
15:03:44 <allanj> Some people change the way certain elements are displayed to make it easier to distinguish types of text, such as headings. When markup is used according to specification, it provides semantic meaning. This in turn helps a person set a customized visual presentation for headings and links, as well as <strong>, <em>, <cite>, and other elements. If all text is increased proportionally,...
15:03:45 <allanj> ...headings can become very large and bigger than people need to read the main body text. Some people prefer for headings to be the same size as paragraph text. They use styling such as font, color, and indentation to distinguish heading levels and other semantics.
15:05:55 <JohnRochford> present+
15:07:19 <jeanne> WD: We need to be able to take off italics where it is unnecessary. It is very difficult to read text that is all in italics.
15:07:41 <jeanne> JA: Good point. Let's finish 3.5.1 and then address that in 3.3.3
15:07:43 <Wayne> +1
15:08:16 <laura> +1
15:08:22 <JohnRochford> +1
15:09:08 <jeanne> RESOLUTION: Accept the wording above for 3.5.1.
15:09:25 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-lvtf-minutes.html jeanne
15:09:49 <jeanne> zakim, take up next
15:09:49 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 54 grid lines, field borders, etc." taken up [from allanj]
15:10:07 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/54
15:12:05 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 2
15:12:05 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue 50 Italics, bold, underline - how to expand 3.5.1 to cover links, em, strong, span, etc." taken up [from allanj]
15:12:36 <jeanne> Topic: 3.3.3 Explanatory text
15:12:43 <allanj> 3.3.3 Style
15:12:44 <allanj> For some people, it is difficult to read blocks of text [link to def] that is all italicized or underlined. For some people, bold text is easier to read. (This applies to blocks of text, not individual words or phrases.)
15:12:46 <allanj> User Need - Style: Users can change the text style (underline, italic, bold) of blocks of text.
15:13:11 <jeanne> JA: The user need didn't change, but the explanatory text did.
15:13:45 <jeanne> ... the definition would come from WCAG
15:14:12 <jeanne> JR: Is this blocks of text or the entire document?
15:14:48 <jeanne> ... we are explaining what we mean by bold text, and we say that it applies to blocks of text.
15:15:28 <jeanne> ... we are saying that people may want to bold the block or turn it off.
15:16:12 <jeanne> ... that is another overlap with COGA -- some people with dyslexia find italics very hard to read.
15:16:30 <jeanne> JA: Take out the parenthesises, but not the content.
15:16:46 <jeanne> WD: Some people prefer bold text or a different font that is easier to read.
15:17:43 <jeanne> JS: Isn't this covered elsewhere?
15:19:11 <jeanne> WD: But it is needed in this area because it allows you to make the italicized text a different font that can be discriminated as different from the main font.
15:20:19 <allanj> For some people, it is difficult to read blocks of text [link to def] that is all italicized or underlined. For some people, substituting bold text or a different font for italics is easier to read. This applies to blocks of text, not individual words or phrases.
15:20:42 <JohnRochford> +1
15:20:45 <jeanne> +1
15:20:50 <laura> +1
15:20:55 <Wayne> +1
15:21:21 <jeanne> RESOLUTION: Reword explanatory text for 3.3.3 to add:  For some people, it is difficult to read blocks of text [link to def] that is all italicized or underlined. For some people, substituting bold text or a different font for italics is easier to read. This applies to blocks of text, not individual words or phrases.
15:21:43 <jeanne> zakim, take up item 3
15:21:43 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 54 grid lines, field borders, etc." taken up [from allanj]
15:21:46 <JohnRochford> I have to go at 11:25
15:21:53 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/54
15:22:52 <jeanne> JA: Comment that 4.5::1 Contrast ratio should apply to borders and grids.
15:23:14 <jeanne> ... I listed all the HTML and CSS elements that it applied to.
15:23:32 <jeanne> WD: Could we put "borders used to indicate focus"?
15:24:36 <AWK> s/4.5::1/4.5:1
15:24:47 <jeanne> AWK: WCAG 3.1.2 applies to text and images of text.  This wouldn't apply to borders and grid lines.
15:25:19 <allanj> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#margins-and-borders
15:25:27 <allanj> scribe: jim
15:25:34 <allanj> scribe: allanj
15:26:26 <allanj> 3.4.5 only applies to borders around blocks of text.
15:26:28 <AWK> s/WCAG 3.1.2 applies/WCAG 1.4.3 applies
15:26:59 <allanj> should we make 3.4.5 apply to form controls, tables, grids, etc.
15:27:08 <allanj> WD: +1
15:28:07 <allanj> awk: 3.4 is about spacing, not sure we want to add coloring and size of borders
15:29:42 <allanj> ja: since 3.2.1 is about text contrast, and aligns with wcag. should we create a separate user need.
15:30:06 <allanj> lc: a separate user need would be useful
15:30:31 <allanj> ja: leaning toward separate need.
15:31:27 <allanj> awk: there is a gap. there is a need.
15:32:59 <allanj> wd: can change styles on form controls, but can't change radio button and checkboxes.
15:33:08 <allanj> ja: what to call the section
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15:34:37 <allanj> Action: Wayne to write User Need on "Non-text contrast" - [can change the name, border, grids, etc]
15:34:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Write user need on "non-text contrast" - [can change the name, border, grids, etc] [on Wayne Dick - due 2016-04-27].
15:34:56 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
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