See also: IRC log
<clown> agenda: this
<scribe> scribe: joanie
<clown> http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/TextInputPassword.html
<clown> action-2008?
<trackbot> action-2008 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Handle concept of description property for UIA -- due 2016-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2008
JS: You all should have a look at this even though Cynthia is not here.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#accessible-names-and-descriptions
JS: I did want her
approval.
... If you first go to the above URL in the Core AAM.
... In the fourth paragraph, it says (Joseph reads)
RS: MSAA does?
JS: That's my question.
... This is Cynthia's text.
RS: I believe she's got it
wrong.
... This is a UIA property.
JS: I'll ask Cynthia about that.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDescribedBy
JS: Next place to go is the above
URL.
... The first sentence is new.
RS: (Reads text)
... Do they have the reverse relationships in UIA?
JS: I don't know.
... I don't think so, but I'm not sure
RS: I think they should, but what does Joanie think?
JD: It depends.
RS: Where I think it matters is
with things like aria-details.
... You need to go back.
JS: But then that's a platform issue; not a spec issue.
RS: I think they should consider
this.
... It might be a performance problem, but at the end of the
day....
... Can we raise an issue for this?
... This is new API on the platform, but can we raise it?
JS: Sure. Why not?
... The issue we're looking at (here at this meeting) is the
addition of the sentence for the new UIA description
property.
RS: Do you want me to send Cynthia an email?
JS: Yes please. If she replies
that the reverse relationship exists, then we can open an issue
against the Core AAM.
... I will ask Cynthia about the reference to MSAA.
... And close this action.
... If need be I'll open a new action.
<clown> action-1569?
<trackbot> action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
JS: Jason and Cynthia wanted to
add a section about API differences.
... They gave me text. I've added it in.
... I need them to confirm what I've done is what they
want.
... We have three actions pending review, waiting for them to
respond.
... The section in question is:
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis
JS: There's a little blurb about
each platform.
... And also about name and descriptions and the API
differences.
... Do we want to discuss this any further today?
RS: (Reads)
JS: IA2 is not mentioned anywhere.
RS: And it's used in a couple of browsers: Chrome and Firefox.
JS and RS: On Windows.
JS: Anything you want to say about it?
RS: It's very similar to
ATK/AT-SPI2 in terms of the information it provides.
... The client/server situation for GNU/Linux is
different.
... Perhaps we should make a statement about IA2 being similar,
but lacking that client and provider relation.
JS: At this point, I just want to leave it alone.
RS: This is not a normative
section.
... But what you probably should do.... You have this first
sentence. It should probably be outside the first
paragraph.
... Then go into Linux/GNOME stuff.
... You bury them in the ATK/AT-SPI2 section.
... (Reads more)
... UIA actually does separate out a client and provider
side.
... But they don't document the provider side.
... UIA is actually the client side.
JD: But you don't implement the client side. So who is reading this?
RS: We're testing AT-SPI2; not ATK.
JS: I agree. And it depends who
the audience is.
... User agent implementations care about ATK; testers about
AT-SPI2.
RS: UIA is only implemented by
Microsoft, I believe.
... I hope we have convergence at some point.
... If we could create an API that's specific to the web as the
starting point, and go from there. That would be the right
thing to do. A lot easier, I would think.
JD: (Makes nitpicky clarification about "new API" versus "a new API".)
RS: If you don't want to write an
IA2 section, you could reference all of them at the top.
... And then refer to it later (e.g. in ATK/AT-SPI2).
... Then if people really want an IA2 section, they can write
it. :)
JS: I'll do this. Though it won't be my top priority, given other work I need to complete.
action-1659
<trackbot> Sorry, but action-1659 does not exist.
action-1569
<trackbot> action-1569 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2016-02-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1569
JS: I'll add a comment to action-1569 to make this change.
JS: I'll skip this one.
... I merged her changes in.
<clown> action-2041?
<trackbot> action-2041 -- James Craig to AXAPI: New subrole for role="application" since 'AXLandmarkApplication' no longer applies (application role no longer a landmark) -- due 2016-03-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2041
<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155403
JS: The role application is no
longer a landmark, but it's been mapped forever to
AXLandmarkApplication.
... There is a bug in WebKit's bugzilla. (Link above)
... Nothing has happened since March 12th.
RS: Joanie, when you check with Apple about DPub, could you ask about this bug?
JD: Sure.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-application
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#application
<clown> "When there is a need to create an element with an interaction model that is not supported by any of the WAI-ARIA widget roles, authors MAY give that element role application. "
RS: What people were using role="application" for was to indicate they would handle all application navigation.
<clown> "And, when a user navigates into an element with role application, assistive technologies that intercept standard input events SHOULD switch to a mode that passes most or all standard input events through to the web application."
JS: So now that role="application" is no longer a landmark, the current situation seems to be that it's going to have AXRole of AXGroup, but the subrole will need to change.
RS: You still need to know it's interactive and not steal the keys.
<clown> "Don't use AXApplication since that's reserved for native apps."
RS: AXGroup won't accomplish that, so there needs to be a subrole to communicate that.
JS: The text above is in the bug
comment.
... Does AXAPI have an enumerated set of subroles, or can they
be created when needed?
JD: Not sure.
<clown> action-1668?
<trackbot> action-1668 -- Alexander Surkov to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1668
JS: This is one of yours, Rich.
RS: Me?
... They already said they'd do this.
JS: Really?
... Do you have a link to the discussion?
RS: I posted to the list awhile back.
JS: This is due on the 7th of July.
RS: I'm looking.
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0375.html
RS: Here's the first post (above)
<Rich> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Feb/0380.html
RS: (Reads from above URL)
... So Jamie and Surkov have responded.
JS: But in that message, Jamie says that he'll leave it to someone else to talk to the other screen reader vendors.
RS: I talked to Freedom
Scientific. They seem fine with it.
... I'll check with Alex Surkov.
JS: I'll assign the issue to me.
<clown> action-1541?
<trackbot> action-1541 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2016-02-08 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1541
JS: There is aria-modal and the
mapping.
... Apple has implemented it already.
... Joanie investigated the mapping and provided a description
of what she found.
<clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaModalTrue
JS: We have this slot in the
mapping spec (above link).
... We have stuff in there for the other APIs, but nothing yet
for AXAPI.
... It appears that Apple is not so much exposing aria-modal as
they are pruning the rest of the tree.
... Is that correct, Joanie?
JD: That was my take. But I believe I also stated that I was not Apple and that it would probably make sense to check with Apple to be sure.
RS: What you are describing is
really expensive.
... (Describes a viewport-based solution)
JS: Getting back to the previous question, we need to know what AXAPI does.
<clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566#c23
JD: I just commented on the bug, asking Chris to provide the official mapping for AXAPI's exposure of aria-modal.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/description property/UIA description property/ Found embedded ScribeOptions: -final *** RESTARTING DUE TO EMBEDDED OPTIONS *** Found Scribe: joanie Inferring ScribeNick: joanie Default Present: Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa Present: Joanmarie_Diggs Rich_Schwerdtfeger Joseph_Scheuhammer Bryan_Garaventa Regrets: Cynthia_Shelly Found Date: 05 Apr 2016 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-aapi-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]