Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference -- 31 Mar 2016

CSUN recap

<scribe> scribe: jeanne

+1 CSUN

Kathy: Mobile was a topic discussed over and over in a number of contexts.
... There were sessions on Android on Android N

<scribe> ... new screenreader for Kindle called VoiceView

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: I talked with MS about Narrator on mobile and Windows platform.
... W3C session that Jeanne & I did on our work
... A WCAG Next session that talked about the Extensions and WCAG 2.1 or WCAG 3, and what could happen in the future
... then there were other sessions, such as AutoComplete and how to get that to work
... Jatin did a session on testing mobile accessibility
... VoiceView seems to be a lot better than Talkback. It allows navigation by heading and landmarks
... it allows voice on setup, so a person with disabilities can set up their own phone.

Jon: I went to session on Touchscreen accessibility. They were doing research on touch screens and accessibility, like touch size.
... Dwell time - how long someone holds the touch
... Size is important
... space between touch targets is less important when buttons are large.
... Position of controls is important. Things at top of screen are hard to touch. Things at bottom are better. Things on the sides are dependent on what hand the user is using.
... people have a problem of touching off the screen
... people push off the screen can push off the screen.

David: Did any of the users have dexterity problems?

Jon: they all did. They worked on a drafting table on a gripping device so the device did mot move.
... I will send a link to the session and got the business cards of the presenters.

+1 Jon

<jon_avila> Touchscreen user interface design for persons with dexterity impairments

<jon_avila> http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2016/sessions/index.php/public/presentations/view/296

<jon_avila> Custom action in Android https://www.novoda.com/blog/alternative-interfaces/

Jeanne: Verbosity of applications is an issue. Balancing the needs of instructions to a first time user, vs. the repetition for experienced users.

Kathy: T hat was part of the autocomplete session.
... also the instructions are not always relevant to mobile, like a "down arrow key". People worked around it with long descriptions

Jon: Android now has local options similar to the iOS rotor control. It isn't available on the web.
... in the proposed 508 refresh, that is a part of the proposal, but we don't have that on the web.

<chriscm> Hey everyone, I can't find the web meeting link...

<Kathy> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m53b1b60a6036509754cc27dae8b39a88

<Kathy> Meeting number: 646 316 248

Jon: I think we should add this as a Technique about minimizing information. It's related to combining links and icons, or maybe it would map with 4.1.2

David: There wasn't a lot of chat on the mobile side of things. It was rather quiet in the mobile twitterverse.

<jon_avila> FWIW the Accessibility Scanner only works on Android 6

David: there was discussion from the Viking and Lumberjack about how long WCAG is.
... EOWG is discussing how to address the perception that WCAG is so long.

<chriscm> meeting password?

David: There was a somewhat offhand suggestion that we talk with EOWG about creating Techniques.

Updates on Mobile Extension

Kathy: There was a discussion of getting the work that is already done in the Mobile Extension to the WCAG WG.
... Our work on the next month will be addressing finalizing work so we can send it to WCAG to get it published.
... the date that WCAG WG will review it will be April 12.
... the Low Vision Task Force has mapped user needs and identified the gaps of where things are mapped to WCAG and where the gaps are.
... WCAG will be looking at all those things
... there is another group working on the future directions, such as WCAG 2.1 or WCAG 3.0
... I kept talking about that mobile user needs also apply to desktop. Low vision was saying that some low vision needs also apply to mobile.
... there is a new WCAG Quick Ref. We could get a mobile view into the Quick Ref guide based on the work we did last year.
... the conversation is happening now and your ideas and opinions are welcome.
... watch the WCAG mailing list.
... we will get this information published. We need to get focused on finishing up the details so we can get it published.

David: I did an exercise where I pulled out all the info on possible success criteria
... where is that document now?

Jeanne: I will find it for you after I finish scribing.

Kathy: Kim did a lot of work reorganizing the wiki, it should be there.

Jeanne: If not, I will find it and send it around.

Kathy: I had a conversation with Judy. The Appendix of the Note listed all the techniques that were applicable to mobile. That was a view of the existing techniques. The idea is that information can go into the QuickRef.
... the information is there, and we don't want to lose it. \

<scribe> ACTION: Jeanne to follow up with EricE about integrating a mobile view into the QuickRef. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Follow up with erice about integrating a mobile view into the quickref. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2016-04-07].

Kathy: We don't want to wait until we figure out how things will be published.
... what we want to reference is the Appendix which lists the existing Techniques that apply to mobile.
... everything is focused right now to see how we can get this information published and available.
... we want to get this in front of the WCAG WG and get their feedback
... then we can put in significant effort to get all the Techniques done.
... there is enough information now so that people will have some context to review it in. We just need to finalize it.

Mobile touch & pointer timeline

Kathy: For next week, please look at your action items
... please get things in so that by next weeks call, we can review the final language.
... it doesn't need to be perfect, but we want it to be essentially complete.

David: Before CSUN, I spent a couple hours redoing the success criteria proposal. Is it done?

Kathy: it is in Github.

<David_> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Proposed_revision_of_2.5.3#Proposed_2.5.3

<Alan_Smith> Joining late

Kathy: is it final?

https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#touch-and-pointer

https://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/#tap-press-revocable

David: Remove the "or" in bullet #3.

Jon: How can you focus something with the touch screen? It may be confusing to some people.

Kathy: The focus gesture happens when you are using the screen reader.

David: That was why we used the word "selection"
... Focus is mostly associated with gestures

Jon: I think people may be confused about touchend. It is in the Understanding.

<David_> Jon: 2.5.3 doen't include drag and drop... might ask , how can you focus with touch screen. people might not understand the distinction focus and touch... but think its ok if Understanding is clear.

Jon: confirmation might be too strong. Could we say feedback?

Jeanne: Should we add feedback? Confirmation might be required in critical applications, like deleting your checking account, but feedback would be more appropriate in less critical applications.
... a feedback example would be opening a dropdown or expanding where the action would get feedback

David: do we need to define activation?
... what we want is feedback for something they would regret. No one regrets a dropdown

Jon: If you got to a new screen, that would be feedback. Maybe feedback would be too broad.

Marc: the confirmation stands for some of the things we were discussing, like deleting an account would be confirmation. The dropdown would be reversable.

David: Gregg made the point that if a person has a shakey hand and it is the action is not activated by touchDown, they would have a problem with that.

Jon: If I did TouchUp, would that then be Reversible?

David: It would be separate.
... when you touchUp it would be separate, that touchDown would be selection and touchUP would be activation.

Chris: DIdn't we want to separate it even more, like in Android phone dialer.
... if the action that is reversing is an irreversible action, then the system is broken.
... try it on the Android device and see how the behavior actually works.

David: using a doubletap to activate it would be going too far.

Chris: Let's make the right decision, not the popular decision.

Kathy: Can we start putting definitions together?

<scribe> ACTION: David to create definitions for 2.5.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Create definitions for 2.5.3 [on David MacDonald - due 2016-04-07].

Kathy: Please send it to the list in advance so people can discuss it.

<Alan_Smith> I find many functions on Android that are activated by touch down only even without a release or a slide away. It is only on touch down and focus.

Jon: I am using the phone dialer on Android, and if I slide my finger away then the key doesn't fire on touchup.

Chris: I have watched people struggle with that -- people with dexterity issues.

Jon: that would make the whole SC invalid.

David: People with repetitive strain injuries would hate us if we forced people to go to double-tap.

Chris: Maybe we need verbage that says that in addition to touch, they also should require switch use.

David: We already have that in keyboard accessibility in WCAG.

Detlev: It would be easier to understand this success criteria if we separate out the AT use and the non-AT use.
... even in the SC, it is a specific thing, that didn't originally address screen reader users.
... it is a different situation when the Screen reader is turned on.

Chris: That makes more sense

Jon: That was my intent originally. The screenreader use should be covered on 3.2.1 On Focus

<Alan_Smith> thanks need to drop. will check emails for next steps for next meeting.

Jon: I think we should make two separate success criteria. Add language "without assistive technology"
... AT changes the touch interface, so it behaves differently. We need to be specific.

Detlev: I know it is not easy to read, but we need to be specific

David: Maybe we need to make up a term
... "assistive technology that remaps" is a phrase we have used in the past.

<scribe> ACTION: David to make a proposal to the wiki and send to the list to address the concerns about assistive technology in 2.5.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/31-mobile-a11y-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Make a proposal to the wiki and send to the list to address the concerns about assistive technology in 2.5.3 [on David MacDonald - due 2016-04-07].

- DRAFT -

Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

31 Mar 2016

Attendees

Contents

CSUN recap

Updates on Mobile Extension

Mobile touch & pointer timeline

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

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