See also: IRC log
<JohnRochford> WebEx tells me I am the first person to join the meeting.
<AWK> Trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 03 February 2016
<AWK> Scribe: AWK
AWK: Everyone should complete the survey. Everyone on this call has, but as a general notice to the group
+Shawn
<JohnRochford> +JohnRochford
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVR_FPWD/results
Alan's comment on survey re: ACB document
AWK: We discussed and it seems that most issues are covered
SLH: We didn't do a comprehensive
review. We should talk to Alan about this
... to determine what he thinks is missing
<scribe> Scribe: Jon
<jon_avila> wayne: question of Jon about printing - in my case a tiny doc may print a book - I change the way it appears on screen before printing. Some people need document in paper before they can understand it.
<jon_avila> shawn: encourage you to look at survey on user needs
<jon_avila> Shawn: some people don't need it. Other people do -- perhaps with the intersection of cognitive disabilities and low vision.
<jon_avila> wayne: not sure if we want to put a lot of work into that section now since most of it would have many different disclaimers. Printing format may be different from format they have it displayed on screen. Two styles may be used one for screen and one for print.
<jon_avila> shawn: basically it says you can change the text and then print it. So it accounts for that.
<jon_avila> awk: ACB document seems to suggest rigid requirements and what we are suggesting is better as someone may not want some of the items listed here.
<jon_avila> awk: example, never use italices and always use asterisks for emphasis. That may be true for some people and there may be capabilities through CSS but that might not matter for some people.
<jon_avila> awk: ACB docs says page numbers are in upper right -- that would be harder to do as that may be hard to target. That might be harder and some pages don't have page numbers -- but on printed versions browser can control that.
<jon_avila> shawn: need action to see what we have covered and what we don't and what we want to do about it?
<scribe> ACTION: AWK to do a detailed review with Alan of the ACB document and whether there is a delta relative to the LV requirements doc [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - Do a detailed review with alan of the acb document and whether there is a delta relative to the lv requirements doc [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2016-02-10].
<jon_avila> wayne: goal of ACB doc is to make document readable by most number of people
<Wayne> ACTION: Wayne to look up the ACB document and determine if it is the newest. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-33 - Look up the acb document and determine if it is the newest. [on Wayne Dick - due 2016-02-10].
<jon_avila> wayne: gave action to myself to make sure it is the newest published one
<jon_avila> awk: looks like 2012 was the publication date of the ACB document from a quick search
<jon_avila> wayne: One I was looking at best practice and guidelines for large print documents....
<jon_avila> shawn: different organizations guides may conflict
<jon_avila> wayne: ACB giudelines have good list of citations
<jon_avila> johnR: Katie and I are both on congitive and lvtf - wonder if she and I can contribute to synching the overlap
<jon_avila> shawn: information for cognitive and low vision sometimes have aspects that are similar for some people. Did that get in the COG TF materials?
<jon_avila> awk: regarding your comments -- are these things we need to do before publication?
<jon_avila> awk: be granular and comments in your pull request what has to be done immeidately or what can wait
<jon_avila> wayne: can put exact references of where things come from
<jon_avila> shawn: let's skim the email from Judy
<jon_avila> shawn: we will likely have some references in the document itself
<jon_avila> awk: Judy says categorical statement should be qualified - say for some people
<jon_avila> awk: we can scrub the document for these
<jon_avila> shawn: spacing is an issue for all people including those without low vision
<jon_avila> wayne: article on print size matter and why newspaper choose formats
<jon_avila> awk: could be other locations in the document where we need to qualify
<jon_avila> awk: need ciation for visual changes around age 40
<jon_avila> shawn: we need to separate out CSS, images, and others into separate files to follow W3C style guidelines
<jon_avila> shawn: not online right now but will dig up reference
<jon_avila> awk: we will scrub the document and look for missing references and get appropriate reference styles in place
<jon_avila> shawn: would save time if you put link and @@ marker in
<JohnRochford> I found the "W3 Manual of Style" at https://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/
<jon_avila> awk: Judy's comments on anchoring concept that this applies to web
<jon_avila> awk: scope of it is electronic documents and information and not the world
Current first sentence of introduction: This document describes what people with low vision need for web content, tools, and technologies to be accessible.
<jon_avila> shawn: good questions -- line is so blurry between documents and web. Broader of definition without going beyond our boundary are would be good
<jon_avila> awk: first paragraph and abstract makes it clear that this only applies to web
<jon_avila> shawn: do we feel that web is broad enough as we have tools and technologies in addition to content
<jon_avila> shawn: WCAG to non-web ICT. Is a Word document web? Is a mobile app web? If appropriate it would be nice to have it be appropriately broad
<jon_avila> shawn: have to step away for a minute
<jon_avila> wayne: we can really claim being the authoritative source -- not sure if we claim for other formats.
<jon_avila> johnR: are we expanding our mandate and how much work would be invovled in that.
<jon_avila> shawn: user needs can be one thing and then separately what is missing from WCAG, UAAG, ATAG, etc. User docs can have broader scope if we want that.
<jon_avila> awk: would be concern if this would be applied to non electronic document or built environment. But what we are discussing in web would seem to apply to Word document or mobile UI
<jon_avila> awk: not sure if I share the same concern. Is that concern for non-web ICT or beyond that?
<jon_avila> awk: reason non-web ICT exists because US Access Board says WCAG works good for documents and apps - so we needed a document that explains how and provides specifics
<jon_avila> shawn: broad issues doeson't commit us to create techniques or success criteria for other platforms
<jon_avila> awk: for example, would be difficult for us to write success criteria that would apply to electronic light switches, etc.
<jon_avila> shawn: concern that people could say document apply to documents or apps because it says web
<jon_avila> shawn: want to make it easy for people to realize lv requirements across platforms and not have excuse and not add unnecessary work later.
<jon_avila> wayne: I agree, I'd like to see it phrased nicely.
<jon_avila> awk: Judy has one more minor requirement
<jon_avila> shawn: go to number 7 in survey
<jon_avila> awk: be careful about terms such as defficiencies, some people say color vision
<jon_avila> shawn: submitted pull request. We can send email to see if people agree to them?
<jon_avila> awk: change seem editorial as long as the terms are positioned properly and are respectful.
<jon_avila> awk: Is there is any objections to change color vision for title and then reference to defficiences when appririate and respectful
<jon_avila> trackbot, end meeting
RESOLUTION: Follow Jim and Shawn's suggestion in the survey
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