15:24:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
15:24:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-irc
15:24:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:24:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
15:24:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:24:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:24:51 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2016
15:24:55 <shawn> zakim,  clear agenda
15:24:55 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:25:01 <shawn> present:
15:25:06 <shawn> present+
15:26:57 <JohnRochford> WebEx tells me I am the first person to join the meeting.
15:28:09 <AWK> AWK has joined #lvtf
15:28:36 <AWK> Zakim,, agenda
15:28:36 <Zakim> I don't understand ', agenda', AWK
15:28:40 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
15:28:40 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:28:48 <AWK> Trackbot, start meeting
15:28:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:28:51 <AWK> Chair: AWK
15:28:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
15:28:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:28:53 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:28:53 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2016
15:29:18 <AWK> agenda+ update attendance survey
15:29:42 <AWK> agenda+ Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVR_FPWD/
15:30:14 <AWK> agenda+ Survey (only questions 4, 8, and 9): https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/UserNeeds-Jan-27/results
15:31:31 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
15:35:50 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #lvtf
15:36:09 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
15:36:09 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:36:10 <Zakim> 1. update attendance survey [from AWK]
15:36:10 <Zakim> 2. Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVR_FPWD/ [from AWK]
15:36:10 <Zakim> 3. Survey (only questions 4, 8, and 9): https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/UserNeeds-Jan-27/results [from AWK]
15:39:22 <AWK> Scribe: AWK
15:39:27 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
15:39:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "update attendance survey" taken up [from AWK]
15:40:11 <AWK> AWK: Everyone should complete the survey.  Everyone on this call has, but as a general notice to the group
15:40:34 <AWK> regrets+ Laura
15:40:55 <AWK> Zakim, close item one
15:40:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item one', AWK
15:40:58 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
15:40:59 <AWK> Zakim, close item 1
15:40:59 <Zakim> agendum 1, update attendance survey, closed
15:41:00 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:41:00 <Zakim> 2. Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVR_FPWD/ [from AWK]
15:41:05 <jon_avila> zakim, list attendees
15:41:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shawn, jon_avila
15:41:14 <AWK> +Shawn
15:41:17 <Wayne> present+ Wayne
15:41:25 <JohnRochford> +JohnRochford
15:41:25 <AWK> zakim, take up item 2
15:41:25 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVR_FPWD/" taken up [from AWK]
15:43:16 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVR_FPWD/results
15:45:03 <AWK> Alan's comment on survey re: ACB document
15:45:15 <AWK> AWK: We discussed and it seems that most issues are covered
15:45:31 <AWK> SLH: We didn't do a comprehensive review.  We should talk to Alan about this
15:45:42 <AWK> ... to determine what he thinks is missing
15:46:13 <AWK> Scribe: Jon
15:46:58 <jon_avila> wayne: question of Jon about printing - in my case a tiny doc may print a book - I change the way it appears on screen before printing.  Some people need document in paper before they can understand it.
15:47:21 <jon_avila> shawn: encourage you to look at survey on user needs
15:47:57 <jon_avila> Shawn: some people don't need it.  Other people do -- perhaps with the intersection of cognitive disabilities and low vision.
15:48:48 <jon_avila> wayne: not sure if we want to put a lot of work into that section now since most of it would have many different disclaimers.  Printing format may be different from format they have it displayed on screen.  Two styles may be used one for screen and one for print.
15:49:04 <jon_avila> shawn: basically it says you can change the text and then print it.  So it accounts for that.
15:49:33 <jon_avila> awk: ACB document seems to suggest rigid requirements and what we are suggesting is better as someone may not want some of the items listed here.
15:50:08 <jon_avila> awk: example, never use italices and always use asterisks for emphasis.  That may be true for some people and there may be capabilities through CSS but that might not matter for some people.
15:51:10 <JohnRochford> q+
15:51:14 <jon_avila> awk: ACB docs says page  numbers are in upper right -- that would be harder to do as that may be hard to target.  That might be harder and some pages don't have page numbers -- but on printed versions browser can control that.
15:51:48 <jon_avila> shawn: need action to see what we have covered and what we don't and what we want to do about it?
15:52:09 <AWK> ACTION: AWK to do a detailed review with Alan of the ACB document and whether there is a delta relative to the LV requirements doc
15:52:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-32 - Do a detailed review with alan of the acb document and whether there is a delta relative to the lv requirements doc [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2016-02-10].
15:52:42 <jon_avila> wayne: goal of ACB doc is to make document readable by most number of people
15:53:49 <Wayne> ACTION: Wayne to look up the ACB document and determine if it is the newest.
15:53:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-33 - Look up the acb document and determine if it is the newest. [on Wayne Dick - due 2016-02-10].
15:54:23 <jon_avila> wayne: gave action to myself to make sure it is the newest published one
15:55:13 <jon_avila> awk: looks like 2012 was the publication date of the ACB document from a quick search
15:55:35 <jon_avila> wayne: One I was looking at best practice and guidelines for large print documents....
15:57:01 <jon_avila> shawn: different organizations guides may conflict
15:57:02 <jon_avila> q?
15:57:12 <AWK> ack j
15:57:29 <jon_avila> wayne: ACB giudelines have good list of citations
15:58:58 <jon_avila> johnR: Katie and I are both on congitive and lvtf - wonder if she and I can contribute to synching the overlap
15:59:39 <jon_avila> shawn: information for cognitive and low vision sometimes have aspects that are similar for some people.  Did that get in the COG TF materials?
16:01:12 <jon_avila> awk: regarding your comments -- are these things we need to do before publication?
16:01:30 <jon_avila> awk: be granular and comments in your pull request what has to be done immeidately or what can wait
16:02:17 <jon_avila> wayne: can put exact references of where things come from
16:02:56 <jon_avila> shawn: let's skim the email from Judy
16:04:12 <jon_avila> shawn: we will likely have some references in the document itself
16:06:03 <jon_avila> awk: Judy says categorical statement should be qualified - say for some people
16:06:15 <jon_avila> awk: we can scrub the document for these
16:06:32 <jon_avila> shawn: spacing is an issue for all people including those without low vision
16:07:04 <jon_avila> wayne: article on print size matter and why newspaper choose formats
16:07:16 <jon_avila> awk: could be other locations in the document where we need to qualify
16:07:37 <jon_avila> awk: need ciation for visual changes around age 40
16:09:42 <jon_avila> shawn: we need to separate out CSS, images, and others into separate files to follow W3C style guidelines
16:09:54 <jon_avila> shawn: not online right now but will dig up reference
16:10:49 <jon_avila> awk: we will scrub the document and look for missing references and get appropriate reference styles in place
16:11:33 <jon_avila> shawn: would save time if you put link and @@ marker in
16:13:34 <JohnRochford> I found the "W3 Manual of Style" at https://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/
16:14:02 <jon_avila> awk: Judy's comments on anchoring concept that this applies to web
16:14:36 <jon_avila> awk: scope of it is electronic documents and information and not the world
16:15:03 <AWK> Current first sentence of introduction: This document describes what people with low vision need for web content, tools, and technologies to be accessible.
16:15:12 <jon_avila> shawn: good questions -- line is so blurry between documents and web.  Broader of definition without going beyond our boundary are would be good
16:16:01 <jon_avila> awk: first paragraph and abstract makes it clear that this only applies to web
16:16:41 <jon_avila> shawn: do we feel that web is broad enough as we have tools and technologies in addition to content
16:17:46 <jon_avila> shawn: WCAG to non-web ICT.  Is a Word document web? Is a mobile app web?  If appropriate it would be nice to have it be appropriately broad
16:18:39 <jon_avila> shawn: have to step away for a minute
16:19:10 <jon_avila> wayne: we can really claim being the authoritative source -- not sure if we claim for other formats.
16:19:21 <jon_avila> johnR: are we expanding our mandate and how much work would be invovled in that.
16:19:59 <jon_avila> shawn: user needs can be one thing and then separately what is missing from WCAG, UAAG, ATAG, etc.  User docs can have broader scope if we want that.
16:20:46 <jon_avila> awk: would be concern if this would be applied to non electronic document or built environment.  But what we are discussing in web would seem to apply to Word document or mobile UI
16:21:07 <jon_avila> awk: not sure if I share the same concern.  Is that concern for non-web ICT or beyond that?
16:22:50 <jon_avila> awk: reason non-web ICT exists because US Access Board says WCAG works good for documents and apps - so we needed a document that explains how and provides specifics
16:24:21 <jon_avila> shawn: broad issues doeson't commit us to create techniques or success criteria for other platforms
16:24:41 <jon_avila> awk: for example, would be difficult for us to write success criteria that would apply to electronic light switches, etc.
16:26:17 <jon_avila> shawn: concern that people could say document apply to documents or apps because it says web
16:26:41 <jon_avila> shawn: want to make it easy for people to realize lv requirements across platforms and not have excuse and not add unnecessary work later.
16:26:53 <jon_avila> wayne: I agree, I'd like to see it phrased nicely.
16:27:19 <jon_avila> awk: Judy has one more minor requirement
16:27:26 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 3
16:27:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Survey (only questions 4, 8, and 9): https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/UserNeeds-Jan-27/results" taken up [from AWK]
16:27:41 <jon_avila> shawn: go to number 7 in survey
16:27:50 <AWK> TOPIC: 7. Terminology: color vision deficiencies
16:28:43 <jon_avila> awk: be careful about terms such as defficiencies, some people say color vision
16:30:03 <jon_avila> shawn: submitted pull request.  We can send email to see if people agree to them?
16:30:20 <jon_avila> awk: change seem editorial as long as the terms are positioned properly and are respectful.
16:30:53 <jon_avila> awk: Is there is any objections to change color vision for title and then reference to defficiences when appririate and respectful
16:31:06 <jon_avila> trackbot, end meeting
16:31:06 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:31:06 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shawn, jon_avila, Wayne, JohnRochford
16:31:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:31:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
16:31:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:31:15 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-actions.rdf :
16:31:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AWK to do a detailed review with Alan of the ACB document and whether there is a delta relative to the LV requirements doc [1]
16:31:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-irc#T15-52-09
16:31:15 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Wayne to look up the ACB document and determine if it is the newest. [2]
16:31:15 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-irc#T15-53-49
16:31:22 <AWK> RESOLUTION: Follow Jim and Shawn's suggestion in the survey
16:33:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
16:33:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-irc
16:34:40 <AWK> present: Shawn, AWK, Wayne, Jon_Avila, JohnRochford
16:34:43 <jon_avila> present: jon_avila, awk, shawn, JohnR, wayne
16:34:59 <jon_avila> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:34:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-minutes.html jon_avila
16:42:20 <AWK> regrets+ Alan
16:42:28 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:42:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-lvtf-minutes.html AWK
16:42:49 <AWK> rrsagent, bye