See also: IRC log
<AmeliaBR> scribenick: AmeliaBR
<fesch> http://doodle.com/poll/zxmyzm728qr4chat
Fred: It looks like everyone except Chaals can do Tuesday 1pm Eastern
Rich: Doug hasn't filled in the poll, though.
Doug: It's not convenient, but I can do it.
Fred: The other option is Friday at 3pm, but that's probably not convenient for many.
Amelia: So will we have a call next Tuesday?
Fred: why don't we skip a week. We can take care of details online.
RESOLUTION: SVG-A11y task force will hold teleconferences on Tuesdays 1pm North American Eastern Time, starting January 26.
Fred: Rich had offered to do gap analysis & Amelia was going to review the assertions
Rich: I haven't done that yet.
Fred: Joanie has been bring up issues overall. Need to focus on concepts.
<jasonjgw> Amelia expects to work on the review of testable statements today.
<fesch> SVG a11y tracker https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/
<Amelia> scribenick: Amelia
<fesch> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/134
<jasonjgw> Amelia: if there is a title element without content, a wider issue is raised about dealing with empty titles. This needs to be clarified in the accessible name/description computation.
<jasonjgw> Amelia suggests stating explicitly that the title/desc needs to have content.
<jasonjgw> Amelia clarifies that requiring non-empty titles/labels is an open issue in ARIA and that the name and description computation doesn't address this point at the moment.
Jason: The issue with an empty
string coming through in accessible name or description for the
API is not going to be useful. That should be excluded at a
lower level.
... In HTML, empty string sometimes means presentational, but
for SVG I think we can avoid that complication.
Amelia: The only complication I could see is if you're dynamically changing the title/desc, but even then changing to an empty string should be effectively hiding the content.
Fred: So we want to insist that title/desc must have content to be meaningful, and change the SVG-AAM.
Rich: May also need to update SVG 2.
Amelia: For empty aria-label, we'd need to address this in the broader ARIA specs.
<richardschwerdtfeger> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#WAIARIAAttributes
Amelia: The text in that section needs to be harmonized with SVG-AAM anyway
<jasonjgw> Amelia suggests providing a single definition in svg-aam and using it in the SVG spec.
Doug: Should be defined in the SVG spec, in the definitions section
Fred: Can someone take an action to create the definition?
Rich: It should also reflect empty aria-label/-labelledby and so on.
<jasonjgw> Amelia suggests we could defer to the name and description computation, thereby introducing a dependency on it.
Rich: We could say if the name or description is empty, but also say what that means.
Amelia: I can come up with a suggested text to discuss next week.
<scribe> ACTION: Amelia to draft a new definition of including elements that requires title/description to be non-empty. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/15-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2001 - Draft a new definition of including elements that requires title/description to be non-empty. [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2016-01-22].
<fesch> Issue: Should xml:title be xlink:title? Section 10.1 Name and Description has a couple of references to the "xml:title attribute". From some quick searching, I have yet to find any reference to that attribute; I have, however, found references and documentation for xlink:title. Typo? Git Issue #137
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-1001 - Should xml:title be xlink:title? section 10.1 name and description has a couple of references to the "xml:title attribute". from some quick searching, i have yet to find any reference to that attribute; i have, however, found references and documentation for xlink:title. typo? git issue #137. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/svg-a11y-tf/track/issues/1001/edit>.
<jasonjgw> Amelia: tspan should not be mapped unless it has accessibility information added.
Amelia: I think the current text [reads it] is explicit, but if anyone has concerns we can follow up.
<jasonjgw> Amelia: we have rules that include and others that exclude elements according to various criteria and we need to determine which takes precedence.
Amelia: This is a matter of conflicting rules, which should take precedence.
Fred: developers need an easy way to clearly exclude something, and not have to worry about calculating all other things.
<jasonjgw> Amelia: event handlers are sometime placed on parent group (g) elements, although the relevant elements are in fact the children.
Amelia: I can look at the text to make it explicit that role=none takes precedence, so long as we all agree that's appropriate.
Jason: I agree. Having role=none objects in the accessibility tree is a recipe for confusion.
RESOLUTION: An author-supplied role=none or role=presentation overrides any criteria for inclusion in the accessibility tree; SVG-AAM should be clarified.
<scribe> ACTION: Amelia to draft new language for SVG-AAM. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/15-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2002 - Draft new language for svg-aam. [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2016-01-22].
<scribe> ACTION: Rich to investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other ARIA specs. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/15-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2003 - Investigate how role=none interacts with other aria- attributes, in other aria specs. [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2016-01-22].
Fred: So does that contradict us saying that role=none excludes something?
Rich: If it doesn't (because aria-label takes precedence) then it would be an error condition to have both.
Fred: So this would be something a validator should check?
Rich: Yes. Testing tools need to update their rule sets.
<scribe> ACTION: Amelia to look into GitHub issue #137 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/15-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2004 - Look into github issue #137 [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2016-01-22].
Fred: If it turns out to be a substantive issue, we'll come back to it next week.
Fred: We've added new rules for empty title/desc which are not currently reflected in our testable statements. Should I add some new ones?
<fesch> ACTION: fesch add testable statements for empty or whitespace names and descriptions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/15-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2005 - Add testable statements for empty or whitespace names and descriptions [on Fred Esch - due 2016-01-22].
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/interact.html#Focus
<jasonjgw> Amelia: the SVG working group is seeking comments on the discussion of focus control.
<jasonjgw> Amelia: tabindex should never have an effect on elements that are never directly rendered, e.g., gradient elements.
<jasonjgw> Amelia: other matters may be addressed by deferring to the HTML spec.
Amelia: I'll send out an email to ask others to review. The SVG WG would like to have a final text by early February F2F meeting.
Rich: Should we create issues in the Tracker to match the GitHub issues?
<jasonjgw> quit
Amelia: If you're using Tracker to monitor progress, should at least have something that links to the Git issues. Public will be using GitHub.
Rich: OK, will do that, at least for the substantive issues.
<fesch> regrets Leonie, chaals
trackbot, end telcon
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