SV_MEETING_TITLE -- 13 Jan 2016

<allanj> Agenda+ Review timeline and tasks for First Public Working Draft (FPWD)

<AWK> +AWK

<shawn> +Shawn

<shawn> +JohnRochford

<shawn> +Wayne

<shawn> +Laura

<shawn> scribe: Laura

<allanj> open item 2

Timeline FPWD

Jim: Making good progress on the timeline.

timeline and tasks for First Public Working Draft (FPWD)

Jim: Mid Feb to have our work done -- to get WCAG WG approval and get published before CSUN.
... lots of work ahead. Surveys etc.

<allanj> close item 2

Jim: please be diligent in completing your surveys.

Survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/prep-for-fpwd/

document flow

Jim: 1st question on Overall Organization.

Wayne: Has a list of a lot of functional limitations.
... He can post it.
... will send it out to the group.

<shawn> wayne, is it an update of https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/5 ?

Wayne: has an update from issue 5

<shawn> [ shawn notes that double vision / convergence is missing -- I've got a note to add that...]

Jim: overall happy

survey - Level of Detail

Jon: Not much we can do about raising grade level in the citations.
... ways we can handle it.

Wayne: confused about low vision and what it is from this document. There seem to be many candidates and a confusing resolution.
... Need to be clear.
... in section 2.1

<shawn> current concluding paragraph: "In considering user needs, this document uses a broad scope of low vision to include all visual impairments except significant blindness — including impairments from aging, color vision deficiencies (often called "color blindness"), and impairments that are often categorized as legally blind yet with sufficient vision to see user interfaces in some situations."

Wayne: will take another look at it.

Jim: Alan is concerned that section 3.7 Printing only covers customized text and did not cover the content that is covered by the American Council for the Blind at http://acb.org/node/750 as authored by the Council of Citizens with Low Vision International.
... will take that up with Alan.

AWK: some things we do cover and some things we don’t cover.
... need more details from Allan.

<allanj> ACTION: Jim to sync with Alan about ACB lowvision. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-lvtf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-21 - Sync with alan about acb lowvision. [on Jim Allan - due 2016-01-20].

shawn: we are talking more in general.

<allanj> scribe: jallan

<allanj> laura: make sure we bring in usecases from WCAG

<allanj> ... we added to the list

<allanj> shawn will double check.

<shawn> scribe: Wayne

<shawn> ack me'

shawn: Charts and graphs: Maybe print out the alt-text

allanj: inserting page breaks. need a page break.

<shawn> ACTION: Shawn check out http://acb.org/node/750 to see if we include what is appropriate [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-lvtf-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - Check out http://acb.org/node/750 to see if we include what is appropriate [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-01-20].

JohnR: Why are we talking about printing? We are the W3C.

<shawn> ACTION: Shawn check if included https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Jan/0001.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-lvtf-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Check if included https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016jan/0001.html [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-01-20].

<shawn> fyi, Printing Customized Text http://www.tader.info/printing.html

allanj: Many people print objects; Print is a viewport and it is frustrating for people who use printing.

<shawn> ACTION: Shawn printing notes charts, alt text, page breaks.... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/01/13-lvtf-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Printing notes charts, alt text, page breaks.... [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-01-20].

awk: I think we are going to hear about this. We are going to be asked about printing. It is not grey when it is done correctly. Put it in and ask for comments.

<laura> bye.

shawn: Curious about what is grey...

awk: Because it is not on the web. We have mechanisms to change the screen, but we need to address it.

<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say it is an important way for some people with low vision to be able to access web content

Shawn: It is a way to access web content.

<allanj> shawn: for some people printing is not an issue, for others it is. (dark background - not print)

awk: Do we feel we have gone through the user needs. In part the answer is there is not they are there. I feel like we get information when we discuss these things.

allanj: Maybe we can start at the bottom.

shawn: Check the requirements. What should be in the TR. What should be a formal note and what should not be a note. Do we want this in the a separate document.

johnR: One thing that came up. It was really overwhelming.

<allanj> shawn: scope document, appendix for other information, or other documents.

shawn: Is it inside or outside

allanj: It can be in or out of the document.

shawn: If it is TR document it requires more process to change.

awk: This has less importance.

johnR: What is TR space.

shawn: TR is technical report. It requires more formal process.

RESOLUTION: All ancillary documents supporting the main document will be in separate documents and not in TR space.

<JohnRochford> +1

<shawn> +1

<allanj> +1

<AWK> +1

3.6.4 Scrollbars

awk: what is the underlying issue. Is it scrolling or uni-directional.

allanj: When scroll bars are not present and the user enlarges print the page is unreadable. <div> with controls and you can't get there.

<allanj> user requirement: users need to be able to scroll, and have indicator of location within the document

awk: WCAG response user need to be able know how far you are in the document to get through the document. What if you can scroll in some way.
... On change, on drop down, how do you know about a solution.

<shawn> +1 to changing "scrollbars" to more broadly what users need to be able to do

awk: We have to be clear what we are asking. We want to put a stake in the ground to keep us in one technical mode.

<shawn> +1 ... and not the specific way to do it

3.6.3 Proximity of related information

Proximity of related information

allanj: Tool tips and error messages.

awk: how close is close enough.

<allanj> wayne: problem of limited viewport, functionally work. some time hard to have things close together with very large print.

<allanj> ... you have to know its there, you can get to it, and you can get back to your previous location

<allanj> awk: does this include table headers

awk: Info and Relationships like table headings. Table headings have to be near. But that would be a big ask. People will ask very relevant questions a table with 20 rows. With 48 point font it wont fit.

allanj: This is a scope. Do we put this in the introductions. Table headings.

<allanj> awk: More Examples to cover the scope

awk: In the use experience paragraph. When we write user requirements information is as close as possible. When we get to SC's we find things we cannot do. There may be gaps.

<Zakim> AWK, you wanted to ask if table headings would be related information as an example

<allanj> shawn: this need tweaking.

shawn: +1 second point. This needs tweeking. This warrants more thinking. Even with a limited scope this would be difficult.

awk: Users need to find information that is related. If you know error were at the top of the page and there is a key to get you there and back. Maybe it is not just proximity maybe it is just you need know it is there and how to get to it.

shawn: Maybe proximity is not the only point. Finding information is a main point.

<allanj> our user needs document informs success criteria and best practices, structure information accordingly

trackbot, close meeting

<trackbot> Sorry, Wayne, I don't understand 'trackbot, close meeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

trackbot, end meeting

- DRAFT -

SV_MEETING_TITLE

13 Jan 2016

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