Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference

12 Jan 2016

See also: IRC log


Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly


<clown> agenda: this

<clown> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=mc95b26d5612c2835c7f8dce9cfe2d6cb

<clown> richardschwerdtfeger ^

<cyns> nah, just fat fingers

<scribe> scribe: joanie

ACTION-1104 (Joanie) Monitor progress of ATK bug re: new position, level, and other API.

<clown> action-1104?

<trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2016-12-31 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1104

JS: I thought we'd probably knock this one off pretty quickly.
... It's about adding group position to ATK/AT-SPI2 (which is not the action here)

<clown> ACTION-1409?

<trackbot> ACTION-1409 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Monitor progress of bug against atk in gnome's bugzilla requesting new position, level, and other api be added (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727453) -- due 2015-12-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1409

JD: In short, haven't gotten to it yet.
... At this point we're looking at doing it during the 3.21/3.22 cycle.

JS: I'll update the action with a note.
... Does that mean it's a year away.

JD: No, because the 3.20 release is like in March(ish)
... Then we start 3.21 development.
... But, again, these attributes are being exposed already. So that's not blocked.
... What this action is for is to have better API in the platform.

JS: So I want a new due date for this.

JD: Two months?

JS: It's clearly not 1.1. Will there be an ARIA 1.2?

RS: We haven't decided that yet.

JS: I'm tempted then to move it out to ARIA 2.0. Objections?

RS: No.

JS: So then when?

JD: Two months?

JS: That's March.

JD: That or April. For a ping.

JS: I'll change the action (action-1409) and the associated issue to ARIA 2.0.

ACTION-1528 (All) Bolter to investigate IA2 mapping of aria-current.

<clown> action-1528?

<trackbot> action-1528 -- Alexander Surkov to Bolter to investigate the proper ia2 mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1528

JS: The IA2 mapping for aria-current.
... Just before the break, Rich wrote to the IA2 list.

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent

JS: There was some discussion between Alex Surkov and James Teh.
... The conclusion was that for now they will expose it via an object attribute.
... The URL is above.
... IA2 is using STATE_ACTIVE for something else.
... It's not the same as STATE_ACTIVE for ATK.
... There's some discussion between James Teh and Alex Surkov if other AT vendors can use STATE_ACTIVE in this additional way.
... But if they can, that won't happen any time soon.
... Hence, object attribute.
... I closed this action because I did the edits yesterday.
... I still need to fill in the AX API values.

JD: In my email backlog, I believe there is a thread bump (on the new mailing list) with his/Apple's(?) concerns about aria-current.
... If I'm right about that, we should take a look.

JS: I vaguely remember that thread.
... I think it was related to on what object/element the property should be exposed.

RS: Let's say we have a navigation section with a bunch of links.
... You're not going to go to the nav; you're going to go to the links. Right?

BG: I know what thread you're talking about.
... From what I remember, I think Apple already implemented aria-current on the element that it's applied to.
... So I don't think that changes the spec or anything.

<clown> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/189642

JS: If you look through the above.... One of the attachments on the associated bug gives the values to use for AX API.
... They stick AXCurrent on the item. And the value is one of true, false, page, step, ...
... Which is essentially what we are doing for all the other accessibility APIs.

BG + JS: It was basically too expensive to find the relevant container.

JS: So James had an idea including the use of the ID.
... But the LĂ©onie said it wasn't needed.

ACTION-1529 (Joseph/Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mappings of aria-current -- review edits.

<clown> action-1529?

<trackbot> action-1529 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Investigate the proper atk/at-spi mappings for aria-current -- due 2014-11-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1529

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCurrent

JS: I made some edits before the break with a note for Joanie to review it.
... (Reads from spec)

JD: If it's absent completely (undefined), then it's not mapped.

JS: Do we need an entry for aria-current with a value of false?

JD: If something is aria-current and then becomes not-current, then for ATK/AT-SPI2, an object:state-changed:active event with detail1 being false needs to be emitted.

JS: If I put that in for ATK/AT-SPI2, do I need to do something similar for the other platforms?

<clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#event-aria-current

JS: While you're thinking about that, look at the event table (at above URI).

JD: Fine for me.

CS: We don't have a good place to map this.
... So you'd emit a property-change event.
... On the aria-property property.
... Property change is the right one.
... If there were a "current" property, that would be the event type. But there's not.

JS: It looks like we already have language/something similar for aria-busy.

CS: Yes.

JS: To recap: Not mapped for aria-current=undefined for ATK.
... I'll add a property-change event for UIA.
... So I just need AX API values and whether or not they have associated events.

<clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23

RS: Do we have an issue to add the error-message mapping?

JS: We do. Though somewhat off-topic.
... See the above product list.

RS: We don't have default values.

JS: Yes we do.
... I emailed you.

ACTION-1531 (Joseph) Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text"

<clown> action-1531

<trackbot> action-1531 -- David Bolter to Bolter to investigate ia2 mapping of role="text" -- due 2014-11-18 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1531

JS: I needed IA2 mappings for role="text".
... There was a lengthy thread about it.
... In the end the conclusion was map it to IA2_ROLE_TEXT_FRAME.

RS: What about UIA?

JS: Text control pattern.

CS: That makes it non-elements.

JS: What do we want to do about text?

RS: I question the mapping to text frame.

JS: I can try to engage the IA2 people.

CS: I'm concerned about authors confusing text and none.

BG: With role="text", I can see common misuses like putting role="text" on anything which has text.

JS: In the spec, one of the examples is to turn three paragraphs into a single string.

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

[End of minutes]

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Found Scribe: joanie
Inferring ScribeNick: joanie
Default Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
Present: Joseph_Scheuhammer Joanmarie_Diggs Bryan_Garaventa Rich_Schwerdtfeger Cynthia_Shelly
Found Date: 12 Jan 2016
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2016/01/12-aapi-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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