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<Kim> trackbot, start meeting
<trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
<trackbot> Date: 10 December 2015
<Detlev> Is there a MATF meeting today? Can't find the agenda in my INBOX
<Kim> yes
<Kim> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/
<jeanne> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Dec/0003.html
<Detlev> So the name of the proposed technique was "Providing touch access for custom controls"
<jeanne> Detlev: Question on the Technique I was working on
<jeanne> scribe: jeanne
Detlev: I took a slider control
as an example
... Technique tentatively titled Providing touch access for
custom controls
... how could that control operate when AT was turned on
... In an example from Paciello Group, the example gives an
option to set values on the slider.
... for some sliders, that would be acceptable, where there are
limited values for the slider
... it could be the blueprint for an accessible slider
KP: It's useful for other groups, like speech users.
Alan: It would be helpful to announce the value range
Detlev: It should be possible,
but I'm not sure it was included in Paciello example.
... I don't know if it works in Talkback
Alan: I use a lot of sliders in
my work.
... it doesn't announce the number, it only announces the
percentage of distance in the range.
Detlev: It looks much more
difficult with a continuous slider
... I am much more concerned with the pass-through gesture.
Kim: with speech, announcing the percentage works very well.
Detlev: Do you have to focus first and then speak the number?
Kim: No, in the Volume example,
you just say Volume, then the percentage.
... In Alan's example, you can interact by sliding it using
"right 10, right 10". If it is connected to a keyboard, you can
use speech more effectively.
<david> sorry late...dialing in
Jeanne: I am concerned that Patrick and Jon thought it was not possible with pass-through gestures
Detlev: Since pass through gestures can't be relied on, I thought the technique should focus on the actions that are usable without pass through gestures.
<david> I'm in
The Success Criteria that we want the Technique to support is "2.5.1 Touch: All functions available by touch are still available by touch after system assistive technology that remaps touch gestures is turned on. (Level A)"
<Detlev> http://files.paciellogroup.com/blogmisc/samples/aria/slider/
Henny: If we can find an example that uses standard gestures instead of pass-through gestures, that would be better.
Detlev: That's why I like the Paciello slider, it doesn't rely on pass through.
David: putting alot of options in, would be better.
Henny: Yes, and limit the behavior of native apps as well.
Kim: Having both absolute and incremental are more useful.
<Kim> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/
<Detlev> scribe: Detlev
Kim: Any more comments on 2.5.3?
Kim 2.5.4 Touch target size
<david> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Discussion.html
<david> this has a discussion of it by Patrick
<Kim> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/10-21-2015-Survey/results
PAtrick commented that touch target size would equally apply to mouse input, nothing specific to mobile
david: Covering a touch behaviour
where you slide you finger after touch away fro nthe target and
still fire the event
... That was commented by Patrick - we maybe need to get back
to him on that
... Greg's comment covered a shaky hand use case (peopleunable
to leve the finger on the touch area)
Kim: Solution?
David: Be able to reverse action
Kim: Two different issues
David: We should right up the technique and see what people say
(That applies to "Touch events are only triggered when touch is removed from a control"
David: Gregg wants few / no new SC if possible
Kim: Henny, any views on 2.5.3 from BBC srtandards perspective?
<david> http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/accessibility/mobile/focus/touch-events
David: Language straight from BBC technique
Henny: There was no pushback on that techniques, guidelines are currently being reviewed / updated
David will contact Patrick regarding 2.5.3
David: Feedbaxk from BBC would be useful
Henny: Not with BBC anymore - no
idea whether there was feedback on that
... Contact Gareth at BBC
<Henny> Gareth Ford Williams
<Henny> accessibilityteam@bbc.co.uk
<jeanne> scribe: jeanne
<Detlev> Kim: Back to 2.5.4
<Detlev> thanks Jeanne
Kim: There are no new comments since the changes. It looks like there is nothing else that has to be considered. Is there anything about 2.5.4 that needs discussion?
Detlev: It needs some
clarification so that one dimension has to be at least 9mm.
Either the touch targets are smaller in one dimension, the
clearance has to go up so you aren't touching another
target.
... it needs to include both dimension and clearance
... it will get more complex if you want to include other
devices, like pointer or touch. Patrick wants this to be
handled more generally.
Kim: If you don't know whether the user is using mouse or touch, then whatever works for the one that is most difficult will do for both.
Detlev: I don't know how you
would tell. Some devices would require both.
... But including desktop would change the parameters.
David: I'm hoping our work will end up in WCAG 3, so I would like to discuss this and figure out a solution that works on all devices.
Alan: The trouble with mouse is
that it is very fine control.
... touch is much harder to select.
jeanne: but people with fine motor problems need a larger target even if using a mouse.
David: If the operating system does it, it's ok, but if the OS doesn't do it, the author has to.
Kim: people who are using speech and zoomtext, have to keep going back and forth because the orientation is an issue.
<Henny> I have to drop off the call. Thanks all.
Kim: some people want smaller touch targets, so they can orient where they are on the page.
Next meeting on 17th. No meeting on the 24 and 31 of December.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.144 of Date: 2015/11/17 08:39:34 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: jeanne Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne Found Scribe: Detlev Inferring ScribeNick: Detlev Found Scribe: jeanne Inferring ScribeNick: jeanne Scribes: jeanne, Detlev ScribeNicks: jeanne, Detlev Present: Kim Jeanne Alan David Detlev Henny Regrets: Alastair Found Date: 10 Dec 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/12/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]