15:46:32 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 15:46:32 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/10-mobile-a11y-irc 15:46:34 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:46:34 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 15:46:36 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 15:46:36 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 15:46:37 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:46:37 Date: 10 December 2015 15:48:03 Kim has joined #mobile-a11y 15:48:12 trackbot, start meeting 15:48:14 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:48:16 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 15:48:16 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 15:48:17 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:48:17 Date: 10 December 2015 15:50:35 agenda+ Review draft of Mobile Accessibility Extension (2.5.3) - http://kwahlbin.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/ 15:50:37 agenda+ Next steps – next meeting December 17 (no meetings December 24 and December 31) 15:51:13 Regrets+ Alastair 15:57:13 jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y 16:00:30 Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y 16:01:00 Is there a MATF meeting today? Can't find the agenda in my INBOX 16:02:41 yes 16:04:50 http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/ 16:07:33 Henny has joined #mobile-a11y 16:08:05 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Dec/0003.html 16:08:22 So the name of the proposed technique was "Providing touch access for custom controls" 16:08:24 Detlev: Question on the Technique I was working on 16:08:32 scribe: jeanne 16:09:36 Topic: Questions on existing techniques 16:10:56 Detlev: I took a slider control as an example 16:11:37 ... Technique tentatively titled Providing touch access for custom controls 16:11:59 ... how could that control operate when AT was turned on 16:12:32 ... In an example from Paciello Group, the example gives an option to set values on the slider. 16:12:55 ... for some sliders, that would be acceptable, where there are limited values for the slider 16:13:11 ... it could be the blueprint for an accessible slider 16:13:48 KP: It's useful for other groups, like speech users. 16:14:18 Alan: It would be helpful to announce the value range 16:14:38 Detlev: It should be possible, but I'm not sure it was included in Paciello example. 16:14:46 ... I don't know if it works in Talkback 16:14:58 Alan: I use a lot of sliders in my work. 16:15:33 ... it doesn't announce the number, it only announces the percentage of distance in the range. 16:15:57 Detlev: It looks much more difficult with a continuous slider 16:16:15 ... I am much more concerned with the pass-through gesture. 16:17:49 Kim: with speech, announcing the percentage works very well. 16:18:07 Detlev: Do you have to focus first and then speak the number? 16:18:29 Kim: No, in the Volume example, you just say Volume, then the percentage. 16:19:29 Kim: In Alan's example, you can interact by sliding it using "right 10, right 10". If it is connected to a keyboard, you can use speech more effectively. 16:21:09 david has joined #mobile-a11y 16:21:27 sorry late...dialing in 16:22:27 Jeanne: I am concerned that Patrick and Jon thought it was not possible with pass-through gestures 16:23:18 Detlev: Since pass through gestures can't be relied on, I thought the technique should focus on the actions that are usable without pass through gestures. 16:23:40 I'm in 16:24:39 The Success Criteria that we want the Technique to support is "2.5.1 Touch: All functions available by touch are still available by touch after system assistive technology that remaps touch gestures is turned on. (Level A)" 16:25:26 http://files.paciellogroup.com/blogmisc/samples/aria/slider/ 16:25:37 Henny: If we can find an example that uses standard gestures instead of pass-through gestures, that would be better. 16:26:01 Detlev: That's why I like the Paciello slider, it doesn't rely on pass through. 16:27:28 David: putting alot of options in, would be better. 16:27:44 Henny: Yes, and limit the behavior of native apps as well. 16:28:06 Kim: Having both absolute and incremental are more useful. 16:30:54 http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/ 16:30:59 topic: 2.5.3 16:31:31 scribe: Detlev 16:32:32 Kim: Any more comments on 2.5.3? 16:32:49 Kim 2.5.4 Touch target size 16:33:23 http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/TouchProposal_Discussion.html 16:33:38 this has a discussion of it by Patrick 16:34:29 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/10-21-2015-Survey/results 16:35:29 PAtrick commented that touch target size would equally apply to mouse input, nothing specific to mobile 16:36:36 Topic: 2.5.3 16:38:14 david: Covering a touch behaviour where you slide you finger after touch away fro nthe target and still fire the event 16:38:54 David: That was commented by Patrick - we maybe need to get back to him on that 16:39:53 David: Greg's comment covered a shaky hand use case (peopleunable to leve the finger on the touch area) 16:40:37 Kim: Solution? 16:40:45 David: Be able to reverse action 16:41:49 Kim: Two different issues 16:42:13 David: We should right up the technique and see what people say 16:43:09 (That applies to "Touch events are only triggered when touch is removed from a control" 16:43:49 David: Gregg wants few / no new SC if possible 16:44:12 jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y 16:44:29 Kim: Henny, any views on 2.5.3 from BBC srtandards perspective? 16:44:44 http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/futuremedia/accessibility/mobile/focus/touch-events 16:45:20 David: Language straight from BBC technique 16:45:53 Henny: There was no pushback on that techniques, guidelines are currently being reviewed / updated 16:46:20 David will contact Patrick regarding 2.5.3 16:46:42 David: Feedbaxk from BBC would be useful 16:47:06 Henny: Not with BBC anymore - no idea whether there was feedback on that 16:47:41 Henny: Contact Gareth at BBC 16:47:51 Gareth Ford Williams 16:48:02 accessibilityteam@bbc.co.uk 16:48:36 scribe: jeanne 16:48:37 Kim: Back to 2.5.4 16:48:44 Topic: 2.5.4 16:48:45 thanks Jeanne 16:50:48 Kim: There are no new comments since the changes. It looks like there is nothing else that has to be considered. Is there anything about 2.5.4 that needs discussion? 16:51:50 Detlev: It needs some clarification so that one dimension has to be at least 9mm. Either the touch targets are smaller in one dimension, the clearance has to go up so you aren't touching another target. 16:52:16 ... it needs to include both dimension and clearance 16:52:56 ... it will get more complex if you want to include other devices, like pointer or touch. Patrick wants this to be handled more generally. 16:53:23 Kim: If you don't know whether the user is using mouse or touch, then whatever works for the one that is most difficult will do for both. 16:53:48 Detlev: I don't know how you would tell. Some devices would require both. 16:54:50 Detlev: But including desktop would change the parameters. 16:55:42 David: I'm hoping our work will end up in WCAG 3, so I would like to discuss this and figure out a solution that works on all devices. 16:56:10 Alan: The trouble with mouse is that it is very fine control. 16:56:43 ... touch is much harder to select. 16:58:47 jeanne: but people with fine motor problems need a larger target even if using a mouse. 16:59:26 David: If the operating system does it, it's ok, but if the OS doesn't do it, the author has to. 17:00:25 Kim: people who are using speech and zoomtext, have to keep going back and forth because the orientation is an issue. 17:00:41 I have to drop off the call. Thanks all. 17:00:52 ... some people want smaller touch targets, so they can orient where they are on the page. 17:01:21 rrsagent, make minutes 17:01:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne 17:01:37 rrsagent, make logs public 17:01:51 Topic: Next meeting 17:02:13 Next meeting on 17th. No meeting on the 24 and 31 of December. 17:05:47 Present+ Kim, Jeanne, Alan, David, Detlev, Henny 17:06:29 chair: Kimberly_Patch 17:06:56 rrsagent, make minutes 17:06:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 18:06:57 jeanne has left #mobile-a11y