IRC log of aria-apg on 2015-11-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:09:15 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
18:09:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-irc
18:09:28 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make log world
18:10:43 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review example of mixed checkbox group that uses role group
18:10:43 [jamesn]
Agenda+ https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/c
18:10:43 [jamesn]
Agenda+ heckbox-3.html Review and update pattern work assignments and
18:10:43 [jamesn]
Agenda+ status
18:10:44 [jamesn]
Agenda+ https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patter
18:10:44 [jamesn]
Agenda+ ns-Status Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal)
18:10:45 [jamesn]
Agenda+ https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html
18:10:47 [jamesn]
Agenda+ #dialog_modal Review APG section 2.11 Dialog (Non-Modal)
18:10:49 [jamesn]
Agenda+ https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html
18:10:53 [jamesn]
Agenda+ #dialog_nonmodal
18:11:04 [jamesn]
zakim, clear the agenda
18:11:04 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
18:12:31 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review example of mixed checkbox group that uses role group https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html
18:12:31 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review and update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status
18:12:31 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_modal
18:12:32 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Review APG section 2.11 Dialog (Non-Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_nonmodal
18:12:41 [jamesn]
zakim, take up item 1
18:12:41 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Review example of mixed checkbox group that uses role group https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html" taken up [from jamesn]
18:13:25 [jamesn]
scribe: jamesn
18:14:01 [jamesn]
https://rawgit.com/a11ydoer/practices/master/examples/checkbox/checkbox-3.html
18:15:11 [jamesn]
JN: this has the changes we talked about last week?
18:15:15 [jamesn]
JK: yes
18:16:33 [MichielBijl]
MichielBijl has joined #aria-apg
18:16:38 [jemmaku]
present +JaeunJemmaku
18:16:48 [MichielBijl]
present+ Michiel_Bijl
18:17:00 [MichielBijl]
present+ Jaeun_Jemma_Ku
18:18:29 [jamesn]
MK: maybe should say how the group semantics are being exposed
18:18:58 [mck_]
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18:18:58 [jamesn]
MK: then have a consistent way of saying what you are doing across all 3
18:19:16 [jamesn]
MK: group semantics for the set of checkboxes are exposed to screen readers...
18:19:44 [jamesn]
MK: 1) Using fieldset containing the set, labelled by a legend
18:20:14 [jamesn]
MK: 2) using an aria group with a label on the group, containing the checkoxes
18:20:36 [jamesn]
MK: 3) using aria-labelledby on each checkbox to refer to its own label as well as the label for the set
18:21:46 [jamesn]
JN: I like what is written already about the grouping label
18:23:53 [jamesn]
JG: 3rd example the group label is defined in the checkbox label
18:24:45 [jamesn]
MK: interesting to me that all condiments is inside the group
18:25:13 [mck]
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18:25:35 [jamesn]
JG: think it should be
18:25:52 [jamesn]
MK: with virtual cursor jaws exposes the group
18:25:58 [jamesn]
MK: with tab it doesn't
18:26:17 [jamesn]
JG: the first 2 the screen reader decides when to announce
18:26:25 [jamesn]
... the 3rd we force it
18:27:17 [jamesn]
JG: still a label but doesn't effect APIs for No 3
18:27:28 [jamesn]
... maybe that needs to be a little more tweaked
18:27:37 [jamesn]
MK: everything looks good w/ JAWS
18:29:06 [jamesn]
JK: what would we say for No 3
18:30:40 [jamesn]
MK: delete 1st bullet
18:30:53 [jamesn]
... 2nd needs to be more explicitly worded
18:36:08 [jamesn]
MK: trying to figure out how to refer to the different parts of the label
18:36:18 [jamesn]
JG: maybe talk about that at the beginning
18:39:01 [jamesn]
JN: big improvement over what we had previously
18:39:45 [jamesn]
JG: need a big discussion over non-interactive roles
18:39:51 [jamesn]
... talk nexy monday
18:41:55 [jamesn]
zakim, next item
18:41:55 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Review and update pattern work assignments and status https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status" taken up [from jamesn]
18:43:52 [jamesn]
zakim, close this item
18:43:52 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
18:43:53 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:43:53 [Zakim]
3. Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_modal [from jamesn]
18:43:55 [jamesn]
zakim, next item
18:43:55 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Review APG section 2.10 Dialog (Modal) https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html#dialog_modal" taken up [from jamesn]
18:45:56 [jamesn]
MK: some editorial things that need fixing
18:48:21 [jamesn]
JN: tab and shift tab should allow moving to address bar before going bACK TO THE top/bottom of the dialog
18:48:25 [mck_]
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18:48:38 [jamesn]
MK: justification for this is weak IMO
18:48:54 [jamesn]
MK: don't feel that that is an actual justification
18:49:12 [jamesn]
MK: staying in context, especially for a screen reader or magnifier user is strong
18:50:16 [jamesn]
MK: enter key should not always be the case
18:51:29 [jamesn]
remove - if the purpose of the dialog is to gather information
18:57:02 [jamesn]
click behaviours outside the dialog. Should we be addressing this in APG?
18:57:51 [jamesn]
should we remove the line "Even if the user clicks outside of the dialog on the application which invoked the dialog, focus remains in the dialog. "
18:58:46 [jamesn]
MK: is this just a design choice?
18:59:04 [jamesn]
MK: should this just be deleted?
18:59:27 [jamesn]
MB: to me it is the same as the escape keyt
19:00:09 [jamesn]
MB: I think we can mention it - to me it is the same kind of thing as the escape key to close the dialog
19:00:36 [jamesn]
MB: I am wondering if it is somethign the APG should be talking about at all
19:00:50 [jamesn]
s/MB: I am/MK: I am/
19:02:32 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, que
19:02:32 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'que', MichielBijl
19:02:38 [MichielBijl]
Zakim, q+
19:02:38 [Zakim]
I see MichielBijl on the speaker queue
19:02:59 [jamesn]
JN: moving to me depends on why the move is available.
19:04:32 [jamesn]
MK: our guidance and notes needs to be understandable why it is there in relation to a11y
19:06:48 [jongund]
OK with me
19:07:07 [jamesn]
JN: anyone disagree with removing the thing about mouse moving the dialog
19:07:59 [janina]
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19:09:32 [jamesn]
MK: from a best practices standpoint it seems we should scratch the part about what to do when the dialog has no focusable item
19:09:51 [jamesn]
MK: also nothing about large dialogs which may involve scrolling
19:10:34 [jamesn]
JN: classic example would be a license agreement
19:10:42 [MichielB_]
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19:11:28 [jamesn]
MB: clicking outside a modal equals wanting to close it
19:11:38 [jamesn]
MB: many lightboxes do this
19:12:22 [jamesn]
JN: very much disagree - many dialogs require entry
19:12:41 [jamesn]
JN: but think there are 2 types of dialogs. for lighboxzes i agree
19:12:49 [jamesn]
MK: think this is a general UX issue
19:13:16 [jamesn]
MK: not sure whether clicking outside the dialog is a severe accessibility issue.
19:13:34 [jamesn]
MK: think the APG should be silent on the matter
19:15:38 [mck]
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19:16:42 [mck_]
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19:16:57 [jamesn]
MK: last bullet seems to be not useful
19:17:07 [jamesn]
JN: "make sure your interface works"
19:17:24 [jamesn]
MK: remove last mullet
19:17:41 [jamesn]
s/mullet/bullet
19:18:19 [mck__]
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19:18:39 [jamesn]
MK: do we want the extra alertfialog stuff in the roles and properties section
19:19:24 [jamesn]
MK: add aria-desribedby in the roles states and properties section
19:20:23 [mck__]
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19:21:09 [jamesn]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29303
19:26:54 [jamesn]
present+ Matt, Jon, James
19:27:00 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:27:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
19:28:09 [MichielBijl]
present- JaeunJemmaku
19:28:18 [MichielBijl]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:28:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
19:28:37 [MichielBijl]
chair: Matt_King
19:28:39 [MichielBijl]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:28:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
19:40:15 [jamesn]
Meeting: ARIA APG TF
19:40:18 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:40:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/23-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
19:40:37 [MichielBijl]
scribeOptions: -final
19:41:54 [MichielBijl]
RRSAgent, stop