W3C

- DRAFT -

Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

03 Sep 2015

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Joanmarie_Diggs, fesch, janina, Joseph_Scheuhammer, MichaelC, Cynthia_Shelly, Fred_Esch, Jemma_Ku, Stefan, Bryan_Garaventa, Bryan, Jon_Gunderson, Michiel_Bijl, Matt_King, JamesNurthen, James_Nurthen
Regrets
Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Chair
Michael_Cooper
Scribe
Stefan

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 03 September 2015

<scribe> Scribe: Stefan

Charter Status

MC: first status charter status

Janina: no specific news

Janijna: we have authority to publish

Janina: we will have quite abit of agenda a TPAC
... new charter not yet approved

MC: have care that after approval we will have to rejoin groups
... formal news mail will be send around
... when this happens

Actions 1675, 1676, 1677 Clean up class hieriarchy

Actions 1675, 1676, 1677 Clean up class hieriarchy - Joanie

<joanie> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item08

Joanie: will paste alink
... last weeks minutes - there was red resolution

<clown> "rs: agree we need to postpone this to interaction discussion"

Joanie: rich do we have inheritance issue? .. yes
... consensus was .. lets wait until joanie is back
... are associated with other issue
... bottom line I think we decided we are not going to address it for now

MC: class hierarchy actions stand out of the main line work .. maybe we allow this to wait and ignore it for the moment

Joanie: if consensus is dont do now then good

Cynthia: maybe issue around inheritance

MC: not sure when it is good moment to do it
... will take it on my list

Actions 1710, 1711, 1712: aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem content as containers (discuss removal of name required)

https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/736https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1710 (Rich) • https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1711 (Joseph) • https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1712 (Joanie)

joseph: rich said FS is fine with it, joanie too others too (Mozilla)

MC: rich created spinoff issue for link

joseph: we could close 1710 and 1711

MC: we should record resolution

<clown> proposal Remove "Accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem

<bgaraventa1979> +1

<joanie> +1000

<fesch> +1

+1

<jongund> +1

<JemmaKu> +1

RESOLUTION: Remove "Accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem

<MichaelC> issue-736: Resolution in 3 Sept 2015 ARIA meeting to accept the change; leaving issue open pending completion of ACTION-1712 to ask if objections from Apple

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-736 aria-label overriding listitem and treeitem content when need to know content is valuable.

<MichaelC> action-1712: this action is now to check for objection to resolution from 3 Sep 2015

<trackbot> Notes added to action-1712 Get with apple to discuss name from content removal from listitems and no longer requiring names on lists.

<MichaelC> close action-1710

<trackbot> Closed action-1710.

<MichaelC> close action-1712

<trackbot> Closed action-1712.

<MichaelC> close action-1711

<trackbot> Closed action-1711.

<MichaelC> reopen action-1712

<trackbot> Re-opened action-1712.

<MichaelC> ACTION: joanie to Remove "Accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1721 - Remove "accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-09-10].

<MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-1721 with issue-736

<trackbot> action-1721 (Remove "accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem) associated with issue-736.

<MichaelC> issue-1721: do after completion of action-1712

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-1721 .

<clown> issue-633

<trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633

Issue 633: listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items (Matt King)

Stefan: there is room for improvement in wording of spec

<clown> <div role=listview itemrole="link" aria-multiselectable="false">

<clown> <A aria-posinset="1" ..../>

<clown> <A aria-posinset="2" aria-active="true" ... />

<clown> <a aria-posinset="3" ... />

<clown> </div>

Jon: main example is that people create menus and menu items are links

Brian: no simple way to fix it

MC: lot of complicated issues .. we should make som list discussion happen

<janina> We were expecting Matt to start rejoining our Thursday calls. I rather even expected him today. Maybe next Thursday!

Stefan: I can start thread on mailing list with issue/action in subject
... and hopefully it will come to live

<janina> Yeah! Welcome back, Matt!

Matt: we need clear definition of problem first
... this is missing in issue/actio n

. Action 1703: Discuss having a Figure role

<clown> action-1703

<trackbot> action-1703 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Ask the aria task force about the need for a special figure role that would be brought up in a list of figures. also, discuss whether this would be a suitable default role for html figure. -- due 2015-08-21 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703

<joanie> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item03

Fred: we want to use figure inside of svg

MC: figure is landmark role?

Fred: not particulary
... better have list of figures separately

MC: will aria-labelledby work?

Fred: yes

MC: svg will use regular aria labelling mechanisms

Fred: in svg we have own mapping spec

MC: fig differ from img role?

Fred: you cannot explore img
... figure can have interactive things
... will all go into SVG stuff

Stefan: SVG

Matt: do you think figure is widget, fred?

Fred: we are going beyond that
... mult. modes of nav, assistive tech acc. task force will do that

Janina: maybe not same correspondance to widget

MC: widgets in ARIA spec have concept that they are interactive

+1

+q

MC: img can contain more that images accoerding to the ARIA spec
... do we want figure role?

Stefan: I think this has been already decided in last meeting

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#img

<MichaelC> action-1708?

<trackbot> action-1708 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1708

<MichaelC> action-1709?

<trackbot> action-1709 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with steve faulkner to discuss the html figure element mapping to role figure -- due 2015-09-03 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1709

<MichaelC> action-1708: see discussion in 3 Sep 2015 minutes for issues around inheritance, content model, labeling, focus management

<trackbot> Notes added to action-1708 Create proposed text for a new figure role to joanie to put in a brancth for review.

Fred: user agent should handle keyboard navigation
... in SVG mappings are already done

MC: Rich should make concrete proposal based on last week's discussion

Matt: aria figure element is 1:1 mapping with HTML figure lelement?

MC: mapping could be broad enough

-q

<Zakim> clown, you wanted to point out that role="img" has "children are presentational".

<joanie> http://www.w3.org/2015/08/27-aria-minutes.html#item03

Joanmarie: it is widgety I'm hearing today
... we are not on same page that worries me
... is the SVG a container of whatever?

Fred: its a container and tab stops inside will have semantic importance+

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-map

Fred: if SVG isnt explorable we will give role img

Stefan: if it is explorable we would need role figure since figure element in HTML is also potentially explorable and may contain active content

MC: HTML figure can be interactive but doesn't have to be

<clown> w3c.github.io/aria/html-aam/html-aam.html#el-figure

MC: we can classify it as interactive nevertheless

<clown> mapped as "group"

MC: classification is not big concern, lets do Rich drat his proposal and then review it

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0096.html

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0096.html

<clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0092.html

<MichaelC> action-1715?

<trackbot> action-1715 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Get with Steve Falkner on acceptance of new figure role to be used by HTML -- due 2015-09-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1715

<MichaelC> action-1715: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0092.html

<trackbot> Notes added to action-1715 Get with Steve Falkner on acceptance of new figure role to be used by HTML.

<MichaelC> action-1703?

<trackbot> action-1703 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Ask the aria task force about the need for a special figure role that would be brought up in a list of figures. also, discuss whether this would be a suitable default role for html figure. -- due 2015-08-21 -- CLOSED

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1703

Stefan: I can mail Rich on public list to enhance proposal mentioning that content is potentially interactive

<clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/semantics.html#the-figure-element

Stefan: this is important to mention since for inactive content we have role img already

MC: neyt week we are in approval mode

<clown> issue-740?

<trackbot> issue-740 -- Deprecating gridcell for grids and use cell -- open

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/740

Issue 740: Deprecate gridcell in grids and use

Stefan: cell :)

Matt: do we need to specify both for a while?

MC: no

<jnurthen> I would advise "cell gridcell" though

<jnurthen> :)

+1

;)

Matt: cell is just a container

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#cell

<clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#gridcell

MC: cell used in tables, gridcell in grids

Cynthia: I'm fine with the change
... I think everything is potentially interactive

Stefan: this is VERY true

Matt: why not create synonyms, cell is the role?

Joseph: we cant make them synonyms since cell is a superclass of gridcell in the taxonomy

Janina: any reasons why this nees to be done in ARIA 1.1?

joseph: we should log we should do confirmation round with Rich presentr

MC: resolutuon?

RESOLUTION: DO NOT DEPRECATE GRID CELL

<MichaelC> issue-740: in discussion in 3 Sep 2015 meeting WG does not think gridcell should be deprecated; but leaving issue open for RS to confirm

<trackbot> Notes added to issue-740 Deprecating gridcell for grids and use cell.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: joanie to Remove "Accessible name required" and "name from contents" from characteristics table for role listitem [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html#action01]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2015/09/03 18:00:10 $

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Succeeded: s/habe/have/
Succeeded: s/Accssible/Accessible/
Succeeded: s/Accssible/Accessible/
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Succeeded: s/we cant make them synonyms/we cant make them synonyms since cell is a superclass of gridcell in the taxonomy/
Found Scribe: Stefan
Inferring ScribeNick: Stefan
Present: Joanmarie_Diggs fesch janina Joseph_Scheuhammer MichaelC Cynthia_Shelly Fred_Esch Jemma_Ku Stefan Bryan_Garaventa Bryan Jon_Gunderson Michiel_Bijl Matt_King JamesNurthen James_Nurthen
Regrets: Rich_Schwerdtfeger
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Aug/0099.html
Found Date: 03 Sep 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/09/03-aria-minutes.html
People with action items: joanie

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