See also: IRC log
<Ian> scribe: Ian
Natasha: I'm AC rep of GSMA, and
co-Chair of web and mobile IG
... I hang out with payments folks
... we are missing some people today so we may have to move to
email as well
... I speak quickly sorry!
... feel free to tell me to slow down
<schuki> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: goal is to
gather stakeholder wishes, needs for standards
... to help IG determine next priorities
... so we're going to collect data across stakeholders and
provide overview at FTF meeting
... I chatted with Ian late last week
... we had a discussion around the payments work happening
within GSMA
... and the mobile operators that are working within gSMA
... we call this the digital commerce project
... talked about some work that might fit in neatly here.
... so here are some user stories and POSSIBLE ideas for
standardization; but those are for discussion
... if you want to support these things please say "Yes, this
is important" and also feel free to offer additional ideas
outside of my comments
<schuki> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases/blob/master/existingpaymentsolutions.md
<schuki> http://www.w3.org/TR/web-payments-use-cases/
-> GSMA Digital commerce http://www.gsma.com/digitalcommerce/
UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: frustration
needing to pay (e.g., for tickets) on a mobile phone
... diabolic experience personally
... we recognize this is good for consumers to fix this, but
there are also strong business cases for merchants that want to
increase conversion rates, and also for merchant
acquirers
... and for mobile operators to offer payment solutions using
existing infrastructure or software they have already
<manu> Ian: Better definition of remote payments?
<manu> Natasha: You're away from the merchant.
Natasha: Means you are not physically at a merchant store.
<manu> Ian: So, on the desktop, or on your mobile, etc.
Natasha: GSMA's focus for remote is "mobile" but for our purposes, it would include desktop as well
<manu> Ian: We've discussed "proximity" as well.
Natasha: One use case that may trigger regulatory questions - one click checkout
<manu> Ian: Regulatory concerns?
Natasha: I think that in some
countries they need 2 confirmations
... so in some countries you have to say "I want to buy" and
then "Yes, I reiterate that I want to buy; I'm sure"
Vincent: On 1-click checkout you need to consider revocation of purchase within a particular period (e.g., 14 days in Belgium or france to cancel payment)
Natasha: Thanks for raising that!
natasha: We have a document ... might be of interest to the IG
-> http://www.gsma.com/mobilefordevelopment/programmes/mobile-money-for-the-unbanked/code-of-conduct
<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about ISO12812 and how much importance GSMA puts on that standard.
Manu: Will you cover iso 12812 here?
Natasha: Was not planning to
Manu: Question for you offline - is GSMA looking at this
Natasha: I will find out
<AdrianHB> +1 - good question
Vincent: I'm part of that WG .. some of the topics you are looking at are covered in 12812....not yet completed
<manu> Ian: A follow-up on remote payments - great model - you talked about user experience about doing something - then you talked about business value for different stakeholders.
<manu> Ian: So, what I didn't hear clearly was the value proposition for mobile operators for remote payments. Anytime MNOs can sell connectivity, that's a good thing.
Natasha: Mobile operators will be diversifying
<manu> Ian: What's the value MNOs hope to provide/capture around payments
Natasha: they will use their
infrastructure / network and leverage customer
relationships...and they have transactional data
... so strengthening relationship with users
... mobile operators also want to deliver services through
existing relationships with merchant acquirers
<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about different types of diversification - mobile wallets, payment services, merchant services, is there a prioritized list?
Manu: does GSMA keep a list of
the types of diversification that interest MNOs? Is there a
survey or list of priorities that MNOs are interested in? E.g.,
are they really interested in mobile wallets this year and not
so much extending services to merchants? or really keen on
mobile money, etc.?
... I realize it's regional as well, but do you have data about
the interests?
Natasha: So perhaps some overview
about who this information is collected...
... GSMA pulls consensus from industry to drive programs
... I know it's not hard data, but these topics that I'm
bringing up are thus representative IMO
... I imagine that if data exists, it would be under NDA
... I can investigate that
(Two actions for Natasha so far (1) Find out 12812 (2) find data about priorities.)
Natasha: Lots of people want to enable....how to do so is the main question. Two things come up:
a) Tokenization
b) Identity
scribe: a lot of telcos have
strong relations with customers so identity programs are
becoming popular in this industry
... in Japan we have things like KDDI"s ID and Wallet programs
which are successful
... I believe AT&T also has a solution for this
... and mobile connect, the federated offering through GSMA
operators
-> http://www.gsma.com/personaldata/mobile-connect Mobile Connect
scribe: this has sparked interest
in easier log-in
... identity stuff is related to existing standards from OpenID
foundation, as well as challenge-based approaches for
authentication
<AdrianHB> https://openid.net/wg/mobile/
scribe: Visa and MasterCard have been doing work on tokenization for some time
[IJ: and EMVCO]
<AdrianHB> https://mobileconnect.io/
scribe: so question is whether people here see need to bring identity/tokenization into W3C
<manu> Ian: I have an interoperability question - MNOs are using their existing approaches to identify people when they enroll for their accounts with operators.
<manu> Ian: The identifier, typically for those people, is a phone number.
<manu> Natasha: It's a PAN
<manu> Ian: Are there identifier interoperability needs that you perceive between the moment of enrollment (when you assign an identifier to someone), and at other points in a payment transaction. Is there a need for additional standardization for these identifiers.
<manu> Ian: My sense from the bank discussion - it seems like they have their internal scheme identifiers, and that's fine.
<manu> Ian: If you're paying merchants, and you want to extend the mobile money mechanism to pay merchants more easily from mobile money accounts - to what extent do people need to standardize identifiers.
Natasha: Problem is tracking
<manu> Natasha: This is a big data question - is it a good thing "yes"... is it possible "it's difficult". If we looked at trying to unify the identifier across industries - is standardization needed? Yes, most likely. There are big concerns around security/privacy - who is making payments, etc.
<manu> Natasha: There are privacy concerns.
<manu> scribe: manu
Natasha: A standardized identifier would be very good - but privacy problems abound - we need to look into that deeply.
Vincent: It's not only about
having a unique identifier, not only about security, it's also
about jurisdictional regulation. Different parties need to
report in a standardized way, in the security domain, we have
to report certain thigns to regulators.
... Where they force the industry to move to a specific
standard - it comes from the regulatory side - we have to be
careful about that.
Natasha: Yes, good point.
Vincent: For every payment, you have to make sure you're in compliance with AML, card network, etc.
Natasha: Once people bring up
stuff like this, I don't want to say "no you can't do it" -
it's just "very very very difficult".
... We use AC records in the UK to identify users - lots of
places around the world still use them.
Natasha: API-like standardization
is interesting - maybe around making an identity request -
maybe around making a specific payment request (specifically,
Javascript APIs - wallet and tokenization topics)
... That may be another interesting topic to look like -
traditional style W3C standards - don't know if anyone else has
had experience w/ APIs in their organization - this would be
great if they were standardized.
... We've found a lot of difficulty around standardizing APIs
in mobile community - WAC is one example.
... Those are the topics that I had - wanted to see if anyone
had other topics - other things they wanted to add to that
list?
... We're missing some people today - hopefully if we move
those items to the list - we'll get some feedback from
folks.
... These topics that I've collected - I could just wrap these
up in a document and send them over.
... We could have a better conversation about that on the list
- general idea on stakeholder requirements.
https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities
https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/StakeholderPriorities#Mobile_Operators
<dezell> +1 to editing into the Wiki!
Manu: If you could modify the wiki, that'd be great.
Natasha: Ok, will add those - Vincent - please look through the list as well.
<Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask that the list is moved to wiki.
Natasha: Hopefully, some of the others will join in.
manu: +1 for putting the notes together! :)
dezell: I think this all sounds good - exactly on track - trying to make sure we have good discussion in Japan (W3C TPAC)
Discussion around TPAC and Japan and excitement.
Natasha: We'll get discussion going in GSMA Web WG plenary that I'll raise these topics.
dezell: Thanks for putting this together! :)
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/Stores/Stories/ Succeeded: s/presnet/present/ Succeeded: s/WAP/WAC/ Found Scribe: Ian Inferring ScribeNick: Ian Found Scribe: manu Inferring ScribeNick: manu Scribes: Ian, manu ScribeNicks: Ian, manu Present: Ju Ian Manu Adrian Natasha dezell WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting Got date from IRC log name: 02 Sep 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/09/02-wpay-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]