<scribe> scribe: MichielBijl

Jon: main question regarding date pickers: currently the key combo to activate the date picker is alt+down arrow, is this consistent with combobox

Matt: I published the priority plan for the code examples
... I like the wiki pages for the list

<jongund> Can I get a link to the table?

https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/Aria-Authoring-Practices-Patterns-Status

MichielBijl: problem is not everyone can edit

jamesn: keep it there, add agenda item each week

Jemma: I like that

MichielBijl: no problem with that

Matt: how far are we down the list

jamesn: I think we are around number 17

Matt: not sure we did menu/menu bar

jamesn: we need to create a hide/show pattern for accordion

<jongund> http://oaa-accessibility.org/example/37/

jamesn: keyboard support for accordions are impractical, Bryan also had some comments

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28917

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26254

<jamesn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28916

Matt: do you want me to add a new item to the list for hide/show?

jamesn: yes please

Matt: I'll do that right now

jongund: we have quite a few landmark rules. With HTML5 people are creating landmarks without knowing it. So some guidance would be good.

Matt: we need someone to write an initial draft text

jongund: I could do that
... what would be the best way to draft it?

Matt: create it in your repo, and make a pull request

MichielBijl: isn't hide/show a dependency for tabpanel?
... they are close in functionality

jamesn: they are, but we are going introduce a new version that isn't

Matt: so accordion is at a stage that we don't need another discussion before you can work on it?

jamesn: well, hide/show is essentially a new pattern

Matt: I noticed we have separate patterns for grid and sortable grid
... Bryan you had some concerns about grid
... wizard, draganddrop, richtext, and mediaplayer those are all discussion we will save for the end

jongund: I have a student who is going to help with examples
... and Jemma is going to help with updating the examples
... we will develop in Django, but will contribute to the aria repo

jamesn: I don't see combobox having any open bugs

MichielBijl: is it reviewed?

jamesn: don't remember

MichielBijl: not on the status page

jamesn: no bugs either, so probably not

Matt: lot of similarities between combobox and autocomplete
... do we need two patterns?

MichielBijl: what separates them?

Matt: that's the thing

jamesn: combobox has a limited things you can choose from, autocomplete has a possible infinite set
... with autocomplete, you filter on what you've typed
... combobox shows you everything (close to what a <select> does)

Matt: still not complete clear

jamesn: should think in UI terms UI designers think in

Jemma: I agree, we should

jamesn: need to fix the description, to better distinguish the two.

Bryan: issue I raised some time ago: what if you have a combobox as a menu? There is no way to distinguish between the two.

Matt: sounds like a overload of combobox
... why do you need to override?
... popupmenu's are same as menu's
... there is no way to know (with ARIA) to know if the author used context menu's
... I don't think people should mix haspopupmenu with combobox
... ?? autocomplete in rich text area

jamesn: that is not what most authors see as an autocomplete pattern

Matt: how about Word?

<jamesn> https://developer.yahoo.com/ypatterns/selection/autocomplete.html

<Jemma> I would like to revoice Jame's point, unlimited options for autocomplete

jamesn: autocomplete should be short

Jemma: you can connect it to a database, have a lot of matches

Matt: I don't think the unlimited thing is the distinguishing factor

<Jemma> autocomplete also provide filtering function

MichielBijl: most autocomplete implementations don't exceed 5 to 10 matches

<Jemma> like the example of Michiel

jamesn: yeah, and most don't just filter on the start, but within the whole name
... an autocomplete would be usable where the list of possible matches would exceed the maximum options usable in a html select

<Jemma> this is autocomplet concept I am familiar with. https://jqueryui.com/autocomplete/

Yep

Bryan: there is a difference between a combobox and a read-only combobox

Matt: under what conditions should you put the combobox role instead of the textbox role on that element

Bryan: are you talking about dynamically adding the role?

Matt: I don't know if it ever makes sense to dynamically add the role

Bryan: not sure combobox is supported on texbox

Matt: it is

jamesn: another difference is that autocomplete doesn't have a indication that you can expand it, where as a combobox usually does

Matt: I'm willing to try and change the description for autocomplex
... I have another question, on the combobox you should use aria-own to distinguish between the combobox and the input
... in some cases this doesn't make sense
... in some cases the list does more than just display a list
... so could aria-controls be used?

Bryan: I think so

Matt: I'll write an edit and propose a solution
... screen readers need to know that that element is the list associated with that input

Bryan: I tried with NVDA and it works

jamesn: in tables and grids the reading order is kind of irrelevant anyway
... if you have a big big table, no one will listen to the whole table

Matt: yeah I suppose

jamesn: if you have context table, you have to look at it in context

Matt: Bryan you're suggesting if it's anything else than a list you can use aria-controls
... at what point do we recommend aria-controls versus aria-owns

Bryan: I would go with aria-controls period

Matt: I with you there
... whether or not the combobox should support down arrow, alt+down arrow, or both

MichielBijl: down arrow or both

jnurthen: I think it should be alt+arrow, that is the default in browsers

Matt: I think both are supported

Bryan: yes
... with alt+down arrow you open it without selecting anything

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Present: Bryan_Garaventa JaEun_Jemma_Ku James_Nurthen Jon_Gunderson Michiel_Bijl Matt_King
Got date from IRC log name: 31 Aug 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/08/31-aria-apg-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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