Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

07 Jul 2015


See also: IRC log


Louis, marcjohlic, EricE, Laura, Kenny, Bruce_Bailey, MichaelC, Wayne_Dick, David, MacDonald, Jon_Avila, jon_avila, Mike_Elledge, Joshue, James_Nurthen


<trackbot> Date: 07 July 2015

<scribe> scribe: jon_avila

WCAG meeting Schedule: will meeting on 7 July, 21 July, 11 August, will be no meetings on 14 July, 28 July, 4 August

mc: schedule based on survey of quorum. This will help us test out our asynchronous process.

Github issues https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues

<Wayne> +

mc: Laura was asking what the mechanism is to get added. Eric indicates you have to be added to a special team to get access.
... There is a WCAG contributors team that allows you to have issues assigned to you
... to send lauracarlson an invite.

eric: you can't actually assign issues to yourself -- you only have read access.

mc: interface shows who is assigned by a small image. Laura wants access to issue 105.
... will come back to it as it's not allowed until you have accepted the invite.
... will start from top of list and see if we can get people to take issues.
... issue #23 should be assigned to me (MC)

jo: regarding the red flash issue -- Marcjohlic worked on that issue and response seemed to be ok

mc: closing #69 with notes
... Issue 70 assigned to Joshua O
... Issue 71 - draft technique - wording has been drafted but we haven't surveyed agenda it. Indicates it is related to #70.

jo: some of these are older github issues -- good for us to walk through these.

mc: Issue 78 - WCAG issues for low vision users. Marc made a comment. Josh filed it.
... probably related to proposed low vision task force.
... Can we assign to Wayne?

wayne: I can put up something to start from.

mc: Please give us your github name.
... Make a note to assign #78 to Wayne
... #82 is about getting github id's to assign people to a group. MC to close.
... #83 investigate issue with flexbox and other CSS issues.

jo: give it to Andrew or Marc

*marc will you be able to take #83?

mc: #84 may be related to #83 so let's assign to Marc as well
... #89 was assigned to Loretta who is no longer in WG. We need to reassign. This is related to Makoto's questions.
... #89 can be closed after reading notes in github
... #91 people are confused by future reference technique links in WCAG notes. Assign to MC
... #92 PDF headers and footers. We need to bring our technique into alignment with PDF best practices. Assign to David Macdonald
... #94 need to close and review technique coming with #95. Can assign to Wayne.
... issue #95 assigned to wobleduck (Wayne Dick)
... #96 low vision contrast not mentioned. Assign to Wayne as well.
... #98 can text shadowing be used to meet requirements.

#96 should be #98

mc: #100 assigned to JO
... #101 is related to 100. Assign to JO as well
... #102 redirects

MikeE: will take

eric: to add MikeElledge to github collaborator

mc: #103 - list is empty - JO to take
... #104 seems like a duplicate to #103
... vote to close #104 as duplicate of #103

wayne: will take #103

Mc: #105 - assigned to LauraCarlson
... #106 is public comment. Louis to take

QRG Updates with Eric

<yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/8

eric: quick update for the quick reference guide. Current mock up provided. Shaping up nicely. Happy with UI.

jo: any other comments on question for Eric?

eric: found out that users wouldn't find the filters if they didn't expect to find them.

mc: think we would use W3C policy on US with straight quotes

eric: will be an update this week
... uses flex box. Flexbox in FF changes the tab order. Other browsers do not.

dm: tab order skips over the inserted content for filters and jumps directly to percievable

david: thanks to Eric

TF co-ordination discussion

ja: Tab order seems to work right in FF. I was having trouble in Chrome. Thanks Eric.

jo: review the TF page and see if you are interested.

<bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/TFoptions2015/

<laura> Usability, UCD, UX, or "Usable Accessibility" TF and Extension

<laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0026.html

<laura> Digital Instructional Materials TF and Extension

<laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0025.html

link to survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/TFoptions2015/

mc: potentially 4 TF here. We would need to have more discuss of what would go into them. We have a lot on the plate.

khs: interested in low vision and user experience.

davidmac: What is Laura's proposal? Usable Experience task force and another would be an instructional materials TF

mc: These are 3 separate agenda items.
... take up next proposals as separate item.

JO: let's keep these topic separate.

mc: Low vision TF should be formed in the next few weeks.

JO: We need people to assist in ARIA and HTML techniques TF
... any takers?

ME: would be interesting

DM: Could write up techniques from time to time

wayne: Can assist with ARIA

louis: interesting can assist with techniques

mc: If you want to join mobile or cognitive let me know and I can add you. Low vision will be moving soon. Techniques we will be talking more about.

jn: will there be separate mailing lists

mc: Low vision will be on separate like mobile and cognitive. Haven't thought through techniques yet -- but probably.

jn: Is there anything to stop someone from subscribing the list to monitor it?

mc: Depends on the group. Tasks might have a more open policy. We need to sort that out with the facilitators.

jn: they are all public mailing lists

mc: could be confusing if WG post to list but are not participants can be confusing.
... talked about subscription that you can receive but cannot post.
... Laura do you want to make your pitch on your proposed task forces.

New task force proposals

<laura> Usability, UCD, UX, or '"Usable Accessibility'" TF and Extension

<laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0026.html

Laura: In the past criticizing WCAG for being ambiguous to usability and not having guidelines, etc. Reviewed two of those studies as part of the issues post WCAG 2.
... people say whether someone can use a site doesn't relate to accessibility but whether someone can use the site. Wanted to have a discussion on the topic. Quite a bit of discussion occurred on the list.

DM: When usability issue causes a disproportional issue for people with a disability then it can be seen as an accessibility issue. We initially had so much to tackle this is what we initially did.

jo: Higher degree of importance now on usability and the quality of the user experience. It's something we have to address that is part of the stack.

<Wayne> +1

laura: DOJ is citing usability and accessibility in their lawsuits.

<Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to talk about the subjectivity of usability

jn: Concerned with the subjectivity of usability. WCAG tries to be black and white and not interpreted. Usability cannot do that. How can you write testable usabiility guidelines for WCAG as they are subjective.

jo: just being something isn't testable doesn't mean it doesn't affect users with disabilities.

mc: we will have to careful consider what the requirements for WCAG next will be. It needs to be a part of the discussion.

dm: New techniques such as swiping and infinite scrolling. This are constantly changing and it takes so long to get a standard through.

<laura> Digital Instructional Materials TF and Extension

<laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0025.html

laura: Advocates and orgs representing institutions and publishers have been at disagreement. Now working out agreement in commission as part of the Teach Act and look at gaps in instructional materials and come up with voluntary guidelines.
... if something isn't there someone might write their own.

<Wayne> I have lost my audio

mc: other works on digital publishing and accessibility of digital publishing going on in W3C. There is two TF on digital accessibility inclusion. Learning materials may not be core focus but it is high on their radar. We would want to reach out to other stake holders at W3C.

laura: spoke with David Sloan and Sarah Horton. Just ran survey and would share results w/ Laura. They are exploring the same area too.

mc: There is an interest group in addition to the community group that is actively working on materials.

<MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/blog/2015/06/planning-the-future-of-the-digital-publishing-interest-group/

me: in the Penn state settlement WCAG was referenced for online materials.

laura: There is some precedent. Montana as well. The two most recent ones they have escape clause such as other standards or combination of standards.

<laura> The Technology, Education and Accessibility in College and Higher Education (TEACH) Act

me: Should look at what gaps there are in WCAG. That would be first thing TF should look into.

<laura> https://nfb.org/TEACH

<Wayne> no

laura: does NFB have a WAI participant.

mc: Not aware of any

<Wayne> This is very important. Assessment, interactive materials and the community wants to soften responsibility.

jo: no call next week. Next call will be the 21st.

mc: check mailing list and process github issues that you have assigned.

jo: thank you all.

<laura> bye

<Kenny> bye

Summary of Action Items

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Found Scribe: jon_avila
Inferring ScribeNick: jon_avila
Present: Louis marcjohlic EricE Laura Kenny Bruce_Bailey MichaelC Wayne_Dick David MacDonald Jon_Avila jon_avila Mike_Elledge Joshue James_Nurthen
Regrets: MoeKraft
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0023.html
Found Date: 07 Jul 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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