Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference

19 Jun 2015

See also: IRC log


Rich, chaals, Fred, Jason, LJWatson


<trackbot> Date: 19 June 2015

<scribe> chair: Fred

<scribe> Meeting: SVG Accessibility Task Force


<shepazu> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m2f65b5e71b964e48bd1274721ab964e6

<fesch> Supports the ‘a’ element, enablign authors to supply the link purpose both from its content.


<scribe> scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger


<chaals> action-1589?

<trackbot> action-1589 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Update the accessibility appendix in the main svg specs, to link back to the relevant content -- due 2015-02-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1589

Action 1589

<chaals> close action-1589

<trackbot> Closed action-1589.

<chaals> action-1600

<trackbot> action-1600 -- Léonie Watson to Get with doug to build a starting navigation strategy for charts -- due 2015-03-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1600

fred: Start doing a navigation strategy for charts

<chaals> action-1600 due in 3 weeks

<trackbot> Set action-1600 Get with doug to build a starting navigation strategy for charts due date to 2015-07-10.

<chaals> action-1602?

<trackbot> action-1602 -- Jason White to Find some stem graphics to consider as use cases -- due 2015-03-27 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1602

<chaals> assign action-1602 to chaals

<chaals> action-1602 on chaals

Jason: I have put together a preliminary document and sent it to Charles who will put it up on a wiki


<trackbot> action-1603 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Work with jasonw, markkuh and the universe to discover how people do interaction… -- due 2015-07-17 -- OPEN

<trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1603

New Documents

Rich: Please look at the revised SVG accessibility appendix and send me comments: https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/access.html

<fesch> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html

<fesch> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html

fred: Let’s start talking about roles
... There one area that is talking about SVG in the third person

amelia: We should edit the co-evolution of WAI-ARIA and host languages

<scribe> ACTION: Rich update preliminaries in the SVG spec to better focus on SVG vs. legacy HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-1659 - Update preliminaries in the svg spec to better focus on svg vs. legacy html [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-06-26].

fred: Let’s look at section 4.1 where there are 2 new graphics roles g-icon and g-symbol

Amelia: I think the intro needs to more clearly emphasize the action
... We don’t want to encourage people to support interactivity where it needs to be interactive
... I will update the example

Jason: I suggest we make it look like the ARIA Spec. in terms of its position in the taxonmy

Amelia: we need to require the name

Fred: Let’s discuss symbol

<AmeliaBR> Link to repo: https://github.com/w3c/aria

<AmeliaBR> Link to rawgit: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/graphics.html

Amelia: I will play around with the definition of symbol
... The symbol element will never be in the accessibility tree
... we need to apply symbol to <use>
... you have one of these text icon on an element witthin a group. …

Fred: were we coing to ask for something linked from a symbol?

Amelia: I am going to spend to day working on this. We can go over edits to the mapping spec. next week

Fred: Were there roles that we missed and agreed to put in

Amelia: there is the figure role and the structured graphical component

Fred: That mean it is like a group or something?
... Any other comments on the document so far.

Amelia: Is everyone ok for me puttng in fallback role information?

Rich: Yes if is informative notes


Fred: We have some pretty aggressive schedules.

Doug: The SVG working group is going to have another face to face in Paris in the fall.
... Looking to CR version of SVG in Q!16

Rich: I would like to see the chart roles in SVG2
... Would like to also see roles needed fo native host language semantics as well as needed states and properties to synch with HTML as well
... There is an aria-roledescription going into ARIA 1.1
... Trying to get ARIA 1.1 locked down too

Amelia: let’s talk about the graphical group role and what to call it

Doug: I would like to see g-group

Fred: is there a definition for that on the wiki?

<AmeliaBR> https://www.w3.org/wiki/ARIA_roles_for_graphics#Structured_Graphical_Component

Amelia: Graphica components can be nested. These should be the default role for <svg> and <g> in SVG.
... If you put a title on this group it maps to a new role

Fred: Before we said we were going to explicitly define roles … I wanted to put a label on a group to have it participate in navigation
... Do I need to put a role on that?

Rich: no it maps automatically
... if you have alternative text on it

Fred: looking at the stack bar chart and we want to be able to navigate up and down the stacks. To make it navigable we don’t need to put a role on it.
... … we don’t need to put tabindex on everything
... I thought we had an explicit thing on it we need to put a role on it.

Rich: no

Amelia: there is a set of about 5 things that trigger whether it is in the accessibility tree.
... it makes polyfills a little harder

Fred: that is great

Rich: The important thing is does the role of the object reflect its purpose

Amelia: The one thing I wanted to clarify is that if we are going to refer to graphical group it will be the main role for an entire SVG.
... We need to have a way that they have switchted into a graphics (graphical group) and it may trigger a new graphical navigation mode.
... right now we have document and widget navigation modes
... if we are going to have new graphical navigation modes then we need to let the browser and AT to know that you have now entered into a graphical navigation mode.

Fred: If you have SVG can you have a role of icon?

Amelia: that means you could not navigate inside
... We said you need to be able to navigate based on the visual layout (left, right, top, down) … to deal with things like charts and maps
... Similar to the way you navigate a table
... if we are going to investigate new navigation options

Fred: there is navigating like a tree

Leonie: I don’t relish the work having to adjust to this as a user

Charles: visual navigation is not an easy way to get around what you can’t see.
... it is a mechanism that is extremely limiting at best.

Leonie: from an unsighted perspective spacial navigation is difficult.

Amelia: We don’t want to tab through a 100 things to get to something

Fred: I think you could just support both so that the user has a way to pick the navigation mode they want

<AmeliaBR> s/We don't/It's more for sighted keyboard users, who don't/

Jason: Graphical group might trigger a different navigation mode. If someone is using SVG to create their own widget set. … What you are doing is creating a whole set of child nodes that effect your accessibility tree
... You may not want an explicit group there

<chaals> [chaals leaves]

Jason: … non-presentational child elements

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Rich update preliminaries in the SVG spec to better focus on SVG vs. legacy HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-svg-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2015/06/19 14:05:34 $

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/This/There/
Succeeded: s/default roles/default role for <svg> and <g>/
Succeeded: s/We are going to/Similar to the way you/
FAILED: s/We don't/It's more for sighted keyboard users, who don't/
Succeeded: s/is a way/is not an easy way/
Succeeded: s/scribenick: Rich/scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger/
Found ScribeNick: richardschwerdtfeger
Inferring Scribes: richardschwerdtfeger
Present: Rich chaals Fred Jason LJWatson
Found Date: 19 Jun 2015
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/06/19-svg-a11y-minutes.html
People with action items: rich

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