See also: IRC log
<AdrianHB> having issues with SIP, how do I call rom Skype?
<Ian> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015May/0110.html
<Ian> scribe: Ian
See updated list:
And in particular proposed Vision:
https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Payment_Agent_Task_Force/Vision
[Manu reviews the relationship among documents]
<manu> scribe: manu
Ian: THere's been a significant
production of materials - in advance of the IG meeting, we're
trying to get some convergence.
... The expectation is that we'll derive requirements - propose
standards work to consortium, we'll publish use cases and
requirements to those new groups. They will all rely on a
common glossary
... The Vision document is intended - state at a high level the
sort of thing we're trying to achieve
<Ian> Vision -> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Payment_Agent_Task_Force/Vision
Ian: There's a session planned to
open the face-to-face meeting in June - it's a one-pager, we
would like to reach consensus at the F2F - now is a good time
to look at that document. See if it aligns with your vision of
Payments on the Web. That document should become stable and
guide our work as we move forward.
... Meanwhile, the architecture task force has been doing a lot
of work wrt. standardizing/prioritizing functionalities /
services - this is the capabilities document. The idea is that
all of these flows suggest some key capabilities at a
high-level, related to payments.
... like coupons, receipts, etc... and also security, crypto,
authentication. So, that is a lot of the work that will lead up
to face-to-face agenda to identify capabilities overall - at
face-to-face meeting, we're going to focus on what are the most
important ones.
... The last one is the roadmap document, given what we know
about the broader ecosystem, given our own prioritized
capabilities - here's a roadmap for launching standards work.
Maybe Payments IG proposes on, authentication is proposed
elsewhere, here's a timeline, and we will feed those new groups
our requirements when they start in the fall.
... We're sensitive to producing too many documents in the
fall, we need to make them terse, and we need to develop them
before the face-to-face meeting - hope to get drafts together
by June 1st.
dezell: Where does the creation of the draft charters fit into all of this?
Ian: I have an action to have one
or more draft charters for discussion at the
face-to-face.
... My sense is that the capabilities work will heavily inform
the charter work.
... It doesn't mean that there will be strict boundaries -
ideally we'll have that 7-14 days before face-to-face to
review.
dezell: Is there an example list of charters?
Ian: There is, but that list is
old.
... My expectation is that there will be one Web Payments core
group, and it will focus on the payments-specific things, and
then there will be two authentication working groups at W3C,
coming from elsewhere...
... They bear upon our work, we'll have requirements for them.
There have also been discussions around Credentials, we have a
section on the Agenda about that at the face-to-face meeting.
We welcome all input, we need to be the ones to go to the
management team to say "this is what's necessary to achieve
minimum support for priority use cases"... that's our goal.
dezell: Credential work seems quite important, have we considered a strategy for credentials.
Ian: There is a Credentials CG
that has been doing work for a while, has a particular set of
ideas wrt. credentials storage/distribution, WebAppSec has also
been talking about this quite a bit. These are ongoing
discussions - what do we need for Credentials.
... What we need from Credentials for payments.
<inserted> scribe: Ian
Erik: See my email on credentials...when can we discuss in detail
IJ: Propose next call 10am ET on Thursday
manu: The web payments cg started
off doing credentialing work...then split into the credentials
cg
... use cases for education, health care, and financial
sector
... there are use cases, spec, strategy in mind
... that group is currently seeking participation from
organizations interested in those use cases; seeking support
for credentials work at W3C
... so that is goal of FTF agenda item
(Discussion of difference in how different communities are using the word "credentials" ; very different uses)
Erik: I think credentials important...see my email.
(Reminder we want to put this on Thursday's agenda)
Manu: You can also send the
requirements to the Credentials CG directly
... also, the Payments IG really needs to start doing homework
around credentials work.
<jheuer> +1 to intensifiying payment and credential work
padler: This week we will be
working on organization of the capabilities materials.
... we are finding the sweet spot
... I'll be iterating this week, ideally before Thursday's
call
<dezell> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015
https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_June2015
<manu> scribe: manu
Ian: Two things I'd like to
discuss - face to face agenda - had an agenda w/ Jeff Jaffe
last week - result is that W3M feels that primary goal of
meeting should be to make sure we have an expression of
charters for standards work, that we are happy with, we will
likely need to do a little less than ambitions in agenda.
... I've proposed to remove two sessions - regulatory
requirements and architecture... and architecture next
steps.
... Part of architecture next steps will need substantial next
steps - as they're being worked out - we're going to be doing a
prioritization exercise - would like that hour to be available
for more work on those capabilities into charters - regulatory
one - David?
dezell: I'm good w/ eliminating that - this Agenda is bursting at the seams.
<padler> +1 to lightening the agenda..
dezell: The main thing I'm
concerned about - public face about regulatory issues, don't
think we need a session about that.
... We have Mark Tiggus talking about ISO12812 - he'll give us
a dose of regulatory input... that may be all we need.
<Ian> ach erik
Pat: I'd like agenda to be lightened up.
Erik: Be careful about regulatory stuff - if we don't do this correctly, lots of regulatory stuff coming up - boils down to non-disclosure - if you boil it down to that, you are on a good path. For example, are we covering legal and consumer protections?
Ian: That agenda item came from
enough hooks wrt. regulatory requirements - how do we do that.
That is work that is ongoing.
... our goal is to have charters for consideration by
membership by early august - we're getting started now because
it takes time to put all of this stuff together and get it
reviewed. We'll have more detailed requirements around
regulatory/accessibility - working on between now and october
when the work starts.
... Review from lots of people - input as requirements come
into view - new wiki page - starting to list requirements -
linked from payments wiki.
... Likely to change - regulatory issue is important and we
have more time to get it right.
<Zakim> manu, you wanted to express general handwringing about amount of work before face-to-face.
<inserted> scribe: Ian
Manu: General handwringing about
amount of work going into FTF meeting
... (charters, requirements, capabilities, etc.)
... we need to get more people to sign up to help work on
deliverables
... would be great to have 2-3 more people producing
content
... Erik, e.g., has just jumped in
... I understand that since moving quickly it can be
intimidating
... I think the reshuffling of the deliverables was helpful but
now we need to sit down and get them done
... regarding regulatory requirements, I strongly agree with
what Erik was saying..we keep pushing it off...we do have time
but we need to put something concrete in the roadmap in V1 that
demonstrates we are taking requirements seriously. E.g., 1-2
hooks (e.g., where X requires reporting)
dezell: +1 to the need
padler: Can we get more
participants from regulatory bodies in the group?
... or to look at the deliverables?
<Zakim> Ian, you wanted to comment on roundtable
(Ian encourages the external review /liaision TF to take up this question)
<inserted> scribe: manu
Ian: I'd like to get back to
face-to-face meeting, move that further regulatory discussion
gets placed on the agenda.
... External review task force could convene and make that
happen.
<Ian> -> email on industry roundtable https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-webpayments-ig/2015May/0001.html
Ian: Meanwhile, look at this
email on industry roundtable ^^
... We're inviting those organizations to the Roundtable. The
goal is to have around 60 people there. There are a set of
goals at the roundtable - we've been trying to raise awareness
from industry, get feedback on plans, encourage
participation.
... So, we start off w/ an intro by Jeff Jaffe - then some
moderated discussion - then 75 minutes of discussion where we
get different IG participants to give short talks from
different perspectives.
... We'll have perspectives from a bank, software producer,
merchant, etc.
... Hoping to come up with a list of folks on outreach - we're
hoping that after each 5 minute segment, there'll be feedback
from group. Lend themselves to discussion.
... Portion of our face-to-face meeting - this can be extremely
valuable discussion time. Many thanks again to Erik and
Bloomberg for enabling this to happen.
Manu is ridiculously excited about the Roundtable.
<Zakim> manu, you wanted to note giant thread in Web Payments CG that we're not talking about BIS and UNCITRAL.
<Zakim> dezell, you wanted to say one more thing about documents
dezell: Prepare for the face to
face - it's the way we're doing it now - excited about the
roundtable.
... Anything else on face-to-face?
Ian: There is some key items that
make the face-to-face a success - understanding and buying in
to the meeting goals is important.
... There is a lot of material that we need to produce, in
advance, by June 1st-ish - pressure to get stuff ready over
next 20 days or so... being prepared is very important - people
have signed up to run sessions, talk w/ me to prep
session.
... Streamline the sessions - try to stay on topic - have some
discussion on challenging issues.
... We should march forward so we come to some sort of
consensus on what needs to be standardized. Interest group will
gather - we have to kick off the standards groups to
demonstrate that W3C is agile enough to do key payments
standards.
<Zakim> padler, you wanted to ask if there is a particular format that Ian would like us to use for materials?
padler: How would you like this material to be delivered?
Ian: Whatever you're comfortable
with - maybe wiki would be best - everyone needs to be able to
contribute.
... Most important is having content for discussion to happen
around.
<inserted> scribe: Ian
David: ISO liaison; Ian is the
liaison.
... and I'll be participating as an expert
... we'll be able to circulate documents to the group (visible
ONLY to the participants in the group).
... I've also circulated Alan Thiemann summary of 12812:
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015May/0114.html
Erik: Does participation in that work require travel?
dezell: Need to check; let's chat offline
<nick> manu: nick shearer
Manu: I am behind on use cases; plan to apply some feedback before FTF meeting
<manu> Ian: We're having three meetings a week - Monday is the "general updates" meeting. Come to the other two meetings if you want to work on deliverables - please attend.
<manu> Ian: I want people to read Vision piece this week so we can stabilize it and move on.
<manu> dezell: Trying not to belabor this - people want to bring back to this group, not necessarily discuss it.
<Zakim> manu, you wanted to mention UNCITRAL / BIS
Manu: The Web Payments CG has had a busy discussion
<manu> Joseph Potvin's comments on BIS / UNCITRAL - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2015May/thread.html
Manu: I'm not sure that all of
what Joseph seeks is appropriate for W3C, but I do think it
makes sense to cover some key terms in our glossary
... by citing global legal frameworks for what we are
doing
... we have already discussed tech specs such as ISO specs, but
we are not yet citing global legal frameworks
... Joseph has said he will seek review of our specs by BIS /
UNCITRAL
<Ryladog> +1 to Manu as laws and regulations are major drivers
Manu: just wanted to raise awareness in our group about this outreach
padler: I was at a finch conf
last week.
... some work going on within FSISAC (spelling?)
... looking at things like standardizing transaction data
between financial institutions
scribe: sounds like we need this on our radar
ach erik
Erik: Yes, I am aware of the FS-ISAC work
<manu> FS-ISAC: https://www.fsisac.com/
Erik: I'll discuss further on Thursday's call
<padler> this was the other link... txpush.org...
[Let's meet to discuss how to structure Erik's agenda item]
<nick> thanks
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