Social Interest Group Teleconference -- 22 Apr 2015

<trackbot> Date: 22 April 2015

<elf-pavlik> harry, oops! i used wrong channel :(

<Loqi> *sniff*

<elf-pavlik> hi guangyuan

<elf-pavlik> hi JHaag

<elf-pavlik> rhiaro will you join us today?

<elf-pavlik> hi johnbreslin

<johnbreslin> Hi there elf

<elf-pavlik> will you join telecon

<johnbreslin> Yes, just booting up my Avaya phone (Application starting…)

<guangyuan> hi

<johnbreslin> Hi Guangyuan

<elf-pavlik> harry? ^

<guangyuan> Hi john

<harry> trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 22 April 2015

<harry> ok, it appears dial-in works

<elf-pavlik> harry yes, thanks!

<harry> sorry for the issues with Zakim last time, it was some sort of system-wide bug

<elf-pavlik> harry ^ ?

<AdamB> i'll have to drop early, sorry

<johnbreslin> Been a while since I did some IRC waving, better than being slapped with a trout I guess!

ok, thanks

Introducing Jason Haag

<scribe> scribe: AnnB

<elf-pavlik> AnnB++

<Loqi> AnnB has 23 karma

Jason Haag intros self

<AdamB> glad to hear that Jason is going to be able to share some paint points they are experiencing with Activity Streams

just started study group for RDF / Linked Data for <all kinds of reasons>'

<johnbreslin> White Paper Jason referred to: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zBPKryuF1tXHTI-AYjXd0ctdWoq4o4P-Uq9SAhJfus0/edit?pli=1

scribe: lots of vocab work
... overlap with Social Web IG
... Advanced Distributed Learning Initiative / USA Dept of Defense research activity
... created SCORM years ago
... standard for e-learning software

<elf-pavlik> http://www.adlnet.gov/

scribe: ADL research org focused on education and training
... their boss at Pentagon is head of training and readiness for all of US military

welcomes Dan Romascanu

scribe: usually has conflict at this time
... works for Avaya
... works in business services; connecting social networking interfaces

John Breslin intros

<guangyuan> I muted myself now

<dromasca> i muted

scribe: at former DERI
... now Insight Centre for Analytics
... Univ Ireland, Galway

<elf-pavlik> http://sioc-project.org/

scribe: involved for long time with Semantic Web / Linked Data
... 10-15 years ago set up discussion forum for "social"
... saw the need for social vocabulary .. thus started SIOC
... been working on it ~10 years
... W3C submission in ~2007
... still being discussed

Guangyuan introduces self

scribe: PhD student with John Breslin

<johnbreslin> Some problems with your audio Guangyuan

<sorry, bad audio>

could you please type a few lines about your interests, into IRC?

<guangyuan> I’m phd student in John’s group and interested in social vocab and social web user modeling

<elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-04-22#Social_Vocabulary

thanks guangyuan! looking forward to meeting (without echo!) in Paris

elf-pavlik: now, meeting of Vocabulary TF
... schema.org and microformats are "living" standards
... thus hard to establish dependencies
... diagrams: activities to <this and that>
... calls on rhiaro to talk about mapping to microformats

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/rhiaro/mf2rdf

rhiaro describes her work

scribe: <sorry, can't understand well enough to scribe>

<rhiaro> Sorry AnnB

<rhiaro> I'll post a link to a blog post

ok, thanks

sounds interesting

<rhiaro> (which needs publishing)

<elf-pavlik> http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/04/post-and-activity-types

<rhiaro> I've had more thoughts on that since ^

<rhiaro> have had some good responses

cool .. interested to hear

<rhiaro> will be posting a follow up post soon

elf-pavlik: how do activities relate to sioc items to <etc>

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Follow

elf-pavlik: classes: activity, qualified-relation
... in "Follow" link, elf diagrams terms and concepts
... invites others to explore this visualizing technique

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Join

elf-pavlik: another example, exploring vocabularies related to "joining"

<AdamB> are you looking for additional "sub activity" types?

elf-pavlik: when he has diagrams of "containers" that will show relationships between activities

<johnbreslin> third time lucky ;-) ta elf-pavlik

<johnbreslin> via rhiaro: since elf-pavlik has used http*s*://rhiaro.co.uk in all the diagrams, I should probably get an ssl cert for rhiaro.co.uk

thanks johnbreslin

yes, I was saying that your /me comment about elf won't go into minutes

bye Adam

ok johnbreslin ... noted you won't see IRC

jhaag: could you give more detail about the purpose of qualified relation

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/blob/master/property/follows

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/qualified-relation/Following

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/blob/master/activity/Follow

elf-pavlik: "follows" is a dead-end, whereas "follow" has many options
... one is an edge

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab

elf-pavlik: read the "read me" in that link
... will try same pattern for containers

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/99

elf-pavlik: example from James Snell (IBM), in Social Working Group
... trying to look at existing vocabs, and take common patterns
... some vocabs are simple, others more complicated

jhaag: I like the diagrams; very helpful

elf-pavlik: I want to show the "state" of graph before and after an action or API call
... and what changes resulted

<JHaag> really like the visualization to go with it elf!

AnnB: curious to hear from John Breslin how this relates to his work with SIOC

<elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/tree/master/activity/Travel

<JHaag> what tool did you use to model it?

elf-pavlik: early work on "travel"
... if you just look at json-ld or turtle, you might miss that some things don't make sense
... was really helpful to do this diagram

<elf-pavlik> http://vowl.visualdataweb.org/webvowl/index.html

elf-pavlik: use google drawing, but plan to switch to another tool

AnnB suggests somethign that puts out SVG

scribe: next steps: first I plan to make diagrams for all the data modeling I use on my own home page
... then I'll look at web credentials for one's accomplishments (e.g., university degrees, achievements..)
... more real-world use cases

AnnB: how much relationship is there between the various vocabularies?

<JHaag> not much

<elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Sicialig/Vocabulary_TF/Mapping_API_User_Stories_to_Vocabulary_terms

<JHaag> there is little overlap

<JHaag> some basic things like title, description, etc.

<JHaag> some overlap with FOAF and dublin core metadata

elf-pavlik: that's why I was trying to map between vocabulary "systems"

<elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison

elf-pavlik: collection comparison: that's trying to summarize the overlaps
... aiming at 2 containers: people I follow and people who follow me
... purpose of diagrams is to better understand and make it easier to explain
... unfortunately Lynn Foster couldn't attend today; she uses a lot of diagrams
... in Open Value Network

AnnB: how can people help?

elf-pavlik: go look at the repos
... make "Issues" to ask questions, or comments, such as "this doesn't make sense"
... all the people working on modeling, can contribute from their point-of-view
... also to explain how they do <action> in their own model
... or to ask questions about differences between vocabularies or models

AnnB: thanks so much to elf-pavlik for doing all this work; for establishing such a good foundation

<rhiaro> elf-pavlik, my immediate reaction is why do we need qualified relations *and* activities? the start and end dates etc could be attached to the activity, right? since activity is an object. Maybe I just haven't looked at enough examples yet, and also I can't hear properly. Also also I have to go now. I'll follow up on github after I've had a more thorough look at all of the diagrams.

ok, thanks rhiaro

<rhiaro> but the original folllow activity still exists?

<rhiaro> and a new unfollow activity

(for new folks... "rhiaro" is Amy Guy, a PhD student in Edinburgh)

<rhiaro> elf-pavlik: okay cool, I'll think about it some more

<rhiaro> I'll also start making some data available

<rhiaro> really have to run now, catch you later!

ok, ciao

<elf-pavlik> ciao rhiaro o/

<Lloyd_Fassett> +?

<elf-pavlik> +q

<elf-pavlik> -q

AnnB: there will be a lot of vocabulary specialists in Paris .. should be an agenda item

Lloyd: wonders about qualified relationships
... we have multiple types of relationships
... how to define

elf-pavlik: I'm going to try to explore that using the relations I've got on my own web site
... going to diagram those this week

Lloyd: Amy's question prompted my thinking on that
... will be interesting to see your work on this
... seems like she's trying to get at "context"

elf-pavlik: seeking ways to discuss this, rather than define "ONE" way

Lloyd: <missed your point .. in case you can type it in; sorry>

<Lloyd_Fassett> I think we're drilling in how actors can relate to each other and domain specific 'nouns'. I expect that our 'vocabulary' is different by type, which is a good thing.

elf-pavlik: would really like help with feedback on github

trackbot, end meeting

<elf-pavlik> AnnB++

<Loqi> AnnB has 24 karma

- DRAFT -

Social Interest Group Teleconference

22 Apr 2015

Attendees

Contents

Introducing Jason Haag

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output