See also: IRC log
<smaug> just a sec
<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: ArtB
AB: yesterday I posted a draft agenda based on Rick's suggestions https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2015AprJun/0062.html. Any change requests?
RB: we don't have to talk about all of these
… could take some to the list
AB: we can just go through them and move to list if needed
RB: sounds good
AB: I have a couple of items for AoB
AB: the group's "Editing Policy"
is defined in https://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/WGCode#Editing_Policy
and it states an "edit first, review later" workflow. The
recent discussion thread is
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2015AprJun/0053.html.
... there are two related Qs regarding PR review: 1) do Editors
need approval before merging their PRs; 2) does an Editor need
to review a PR from a non-Editor before it is merged.
Currently, the Editors are Jacob and Matt.
... on the list I said the answer to these two Qs are No (which
validates/confirms our Editing Policy) and Yes, respectively.
Any disagreement with that?
… or other comments
RB: I forgot the Editing Policy
… don't think we need any changes
AB: any other comments?
[ None ]
RESOLUTION: PRs
from Editors do not need to be reviewed before
merging.
... PRs from non-Editors must be reviewed by an Editor before
merging.
AB: this is about PR 5 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/5. Is there a need to discuss or do we give the Editors an action to merge the PR?
JR: I'm happy to merge it
RB: I might have misunderstood something
… wasn't sure
<scribe> ACTION: Jacob to merge PR#5 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Merge pr#5 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2015-04-28].
<scott_gonzalez> ?w=1
JR: there is an option on GH
[ see Scott's info above ]
AB: this is Issue #4 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/4
which is the result of a comment on March 16 from Stuart
Bentley
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2015JanMar/0029.html.
... do we discuss now or take discussion to the Issue?
RB: I replied in the issue
… need input from JR
JR: because there is some inheritance from mouse, keeping with bitmap makes sense
… want to make it easier to write touch code
… We had briefly talked (perhaps on v2 wiki) if there is a new system f.ex. a new property to detect button state
<rbyers> In particular, interesting point Jacob mentioned that overlapping pointerdown/pointerup for the same pointer ID would be a pain for multi-touch
… f.ex. we thought about this for pens and erassers
… We could add some more information about button state
… but start to get into a lot of potential possibliities
… If we want to do something here, need to do something new
RB: agree but think the spec is a bit incomplete, perhaps not consistent
… says button follows from mouse event
… not specified how button should behave when multiple buttons are pressed
… Think the comment is that we need to be more explicit when multiple buttons are pressed
… We could eliminate the note [ref needed!]
JR: with button bitmask don't know specifically which button caused the event
… don't know which button just up'ed, for example
RB: need to define chord when there's a move
JR: oh, ok
… let me think how to address this
… I'll make a PR and send a link to it
<scribe> ACTION: submit a PR for issue #4 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Error finding 'submit'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/pointerevents/track/users>.
<scribe> ACTION: jacob submit a PR for issue #4 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-pointerevents-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - Submit a pr for issue #4 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2015-04-28].
AB: this thread was started by
Rick on March 17
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2015JanMar/0033.html
and discussion has continued for a few weeks.
... on April 16, Rick's
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2015AprJun/0048.html
e-mail included a link to his proposal i.e. a spec diff
https://github.com/RByers/w3c-pointerevents/compare/fix-crlf...RByers:touchaction-directions?diff=split&name=touchaction-directions
<rbyers> Left click then right click does: pointerdown button=0 buttons=1, pointermove button=2 buttons=3
AB: what do people think; have folks reviewed the proposal? Seems to me that Rick should submit a PR to w3c/pointerevents.
<rbyers> It's the value of 'button' on the pointermove that's currently unspecified (not inherited from the MouseEvents spec as the rest of button/buttons are).
RB: I haven't submitted a PR yet because I need the LF issue fixed first
AB: oh, ok
RB: would like to get feedback on the non-trivial issues
JR: read the spec text; seemed good to me
… but don't think we should do pan-* re the documentation
… think the more specificity would be better
RB: ok; I'll make that change
… not sure about the grammar
… I opted for the minimal grammar
… but I don't know if permissive or more restrictive is better
JR: need to be consistent
RB: should I be consistent with the spec or IE?
JR: with IE can do pan-x, pan-y, pinchzoom
… and I think the current spec does not permit that
… Think the PE spec needs to support this
… So pan-up and pan-down not possible with pan-y, right?
RB: correct
… shouldn't allow pan-down and pan-y because that is redundant
JR: I think what you have looks correct
RB: I think this is a simpler way to spec what we want
JR: looks good
RB: I combined another change re coordinate space
… added a sentence to state screen coords are being used
… is that OK?
JR: yes
… but last sentence doesn't look quite right
… I need to view the proposal v-a-v our gesture system
… if just have pan-right, can I undo the gesture i.e. pull it back to left?
RB: once scroll started, can go back even if moving in the reverse direction is not allowed
… need to be able to undo
RB: we can define what happens at and after the start
… can go back/reverse
… but can't change dimension
… tried to capture the various scenarios
JR: last sentence needs some work
RB: [ makes a proposal to update the text to address JR's concern ]
JR: would be good if we could proto this with JS
… want to make sure the edge cases still work
RB: think this is simple enough to impl to just go ahead and implement in Chrome
… but will do so behind a flag
… want to ship in Chrome 45
… but if we don't have sufficient data, can back off of that
AV: if you can give more data re shipping that would be helpful
RB: you mean PE in general or touch-action?
AV: Pointer Events
RB: I don't have any new info re schedule
AV: ok, please let us know when you have more data to share
RB: ok
JR: ok, so just want to make sure we do some experimenting before he make it part of the REC
<scott_gonzalez> We have use cases from all the native iOS apps (as of the time of the writing) for touch action here: http://www.w3.org/wiki/PointerEvents/TouchAction
RB: that sounds good
... there's also some text about nearest ancestor
… think that text isn't correct
JR: I'll need to look at the text
… oh, in the definition of pan-x
RB: [ reads defn of pan-x ]
… think the defn is not consistent with the proc model below
JR: so if have vert scroller and then horiz one above it?
RB: yes
JR: ok, I'll take a look at that v-a-v clarifying
… but your proposal looks ok (but need to check our impls)
RB: pull-to-refresh to work with PE requires t-a pan-down
… that behaviour (f.ex. twitter) a bit more common than carousel example
JR: we can have both examples
… need to make sure they both work
RB: ok, I'll update my PR and submit it
AB: on April 16 Rick sent an
"Non-scroll-blocking wheel events listeners / relationship to
PEWG?" email
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2015AprJun/0042.html
and currently, there have been no replies.
... Rick asks "is there interest/feedback from this group, or
discuss only on www-dom?" and he listed three options to
address the issue.
RB: Olli replied today
OP: would need 4 params to event listener might work
RB: I'll reply on the list
... any feedback from you?
JR: agree there is a problem
… most cases wheel event uses default
… not much gesture recongnition there
RB: anecdotally, know of at least framework using wheel
[ Scribe notes some dialogue between JR and RB missing … ]
RB: touch-action works for PE because they are async
… in wheel case, events are typicall sync
… don't think a CSS property is sufficient
JR: need to think about this and continue discussion on the list
RB: I don't care much about wheel events scrolling perf
… but it is related to other probls that are high priority
… would be good if PointerEvents scenario is consistent with other events
JR: don't see this as a huge priority
… want to keep discussing this
RB: missing capability is how developers balance scroll performance and functionality
JR: somewhat related to track pad issues
AB: let's continue this discussion on the list
AB: Doug, what's the status of the PEWG extension to the end of 2015?
DS: it's in PLH's hands
<rbyers> smaug: Sorry I kind of brushed off your response - your audio was REALLY hard to follow. I think I got the gist and I agree we should continue discussion on the list.
DS: no need to worry
... re the errata, we talked about the location of the errata
and we agreed with that location
<shepazu_> https://specs.webplatform.org/
<smaug> rbyers: nm. perhaps something to do with this hotel network. atm in Mountain View
JR: how do we want to handle errata for v1?
… do we patch the v1 spec?
… do we wipe the changes section in the v2 spec and then have the errata point to the v2 spec?
DS: I was addressing Art's Q about touch-events
JR: ok; that location is ok with me for PE errata
… I don't think a wiki for errata is a good idea
DS: agree
JR: do you want to help editing?
RB: sure
AB: congratulations to Rick, a new co-Editor for the Pointer Events spec
JR: for non-editorial changes, Editors can of course create a PR and let other Editors look at the PR before merging
RB: sounds good; I'd probably do that anyway
AB: all PRs should be
auto-email'd to the list
... anything else for today?
[ Nothing ]
AB: meeting adjourned
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/JR:/RB:/ Succeeded: s/change direction/change dimension/ Succeeded: s/tood/good/ Succeeded: s/JR: I'll reply/RB: I'll reply/ Succeeded: s/JR: any feedback/RB: any feedback/ Succeeded: s/prior/priority/ Succeeded: s/how to/how developers/ Found ScribeNick: ArtB Found Scribe: ArtB Inferring ScribeNick: ArtB Default Present: +1.571.426.aaaa, ArtB, Scott_Gonzalez, rbyers, Olli_Pettay, jrossi, Doug_Schepers, Matt_Brubeck Present: Art_Barstow Asir_Vedamuthu Scott_González Jacob_Rossi Olli_Pettay Rick_Byers Tim_Dresser Doug_Schepers Matt_Brubeck Regrets: Sangwhan_Moon Patrick_H_Lauke Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2015AprJun/0062.html Got date from IRC log name: 21 Apr 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-pointerevents-minutes.html People with action items: jacob submit WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]