Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

21 Oct 2014


See also: IRC log


Joshue, Michael_Cooper, AWK, Kenny, Kathy_Wahlbin, EricE, Bruce_Bailey, Marc_Johlic, jon_avila, loretta, +1.512.276.aaaa, Brent, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen
David_MacDonald, Alistair_Garrison, Barry, Christophe, David
jon_avila, Kathy


<trackbot> Date: 21 October 2014

<Kenny> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Working_Group_Techniques_Development_Assignments

<AWK> Trackbot, start meeting

<trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

<trackbot> Date: 21 October 2014

<Kenny> let me know if anything wrong

<Kenny> thanks AWK for get regrets

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila

TPAC Plans


awk: coordinating with EO to talk about WAI Dev and Quick ref project to determine when we can discuss at TPAC.
... Ideas including results from user survey and making conclusions; Also time to discuss supporting documents.
... Not sure how much direct task force reports we will be able to discuss. Other ideas from survey including discussion of five year vision and WAI 2020
... Will also discuss how to get a fully engaged working group and get feedback from members of public.
... official agenda will come out this week. Will send out directions and list of who is coming will be sent to LGR for Sunday. Monday will be at event hotel.
... Are there other things/ideas that people would like to comment on for discussion at TPAC?

<Kathy> yes

awk: Do the things mentioned sound good?

JO: Yes, sounds good.

LGR: Good to discuss bigger long range issues.

marc: Will be first TPAC. Would like to see how other approach writing techniques and using Github. New user can hit log jams in writing new techniques. Would be helpful to get help.

awk: Tuesday will be a day where I will have time if we don't get to do it earlier.
... Judy is on list of planned observers. Would like to get some of her time for visions and plans for WAI 2020.

October 14 Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/

awk: Not a lot of consensous on survey.

LC-2961 UPDATED] Remove example 1 from ARIA7

<bbailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/14thOct2014/results#xq2

awk: commenter desire to remove example 1 from ARIA7.

kw: put in Kim Patch's feedback under Kathy's feedback.
... Kim's point is that user can accidently activate an item if there is hidden link text. Espeically if there are short or single words.

awk: If I have a link that says readme and is labelled by text says "Andrew's dissertation" .

kw: If there is only one match for a word then Dragon will automatically activate it.

khs: How does Siri work on mobile with links on web pages?

kw: Don't think that is supported currently on iOS

awk: Kim's concern is that hidden link text shouldn't start with click.
... Dragon latest version -- user can say link text or aria-labelledby text to activate a link.
... David has friendly counter proposal referring to the "read more" text also in the aria-labelledby. e.g Storms hit east coast read more.
... James suggest putting "read more" first in the aria-labelledby reference.
... Any more comments?

<Joshue> +q

awk: proposed resolution current says example 1 should be removed. We need to re-write to adjust and identify the change in example 1. Should be pretty easy as David gave us code.
... some writing needs to happen. Anyone wants to do it?

jo: Pattern is problematic because the assistive technology currently reads the label and link text

<jamesn> -1

james: problems with aria label and aria-describedby. Described by doesn't solve list of link problem.

jo: aware of different degress of support. Want a valid pattern that works.

james: against AT reading aria label and on-screen text.
... aria labels replace not add supplimentary information. We can inlcude text from scren that is being replaced in accessible name. We want AT to be consistent with ARIA specification.

jo: lack of consistency now on how AT handles it.

james: some AT doesn't use accessibility API

jo: Title can be used to provide supplimentary inforamtion.

awk: Update example 1 per David's suggestion. Then we should be good? Does anyone want to update?
... Example would use Local text followed by external text. Both use labelledby.
... Next call will be two weeks from today.

jo: will take a crack at updating response now.

<AWK> ACTION: Jon to update LC-2961/ARIA7 response if Josh doesn't get it done during the call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-288 - Update lc-2961/aria7 response if josh doesn't get it done during the call [on Jon Gunderson - due 2014-10-28].

RESOLUTION: Leave open

[LC-2954 UPDATED] Clarify F68 is applicable for controls that use visible labels

awk: comment include typos, removing example 3, those that don't agree with removing example 3. Some don't want to remove title and aria-label from test procedure.

<AWK> https://github.com/awkawk/wcag/compare/AWK-WCAG-Edits?diff=split

awk: Look at my updated response in url.
... walk through changes in Github. Starting out, it's just a 4.1.2 technique. Applicability to controls in general and not whether they have a visual label.
... Change from language about visual labels not associated to no accessible name. Aligned with accessible name calculation.
... Example really isn't changed -- just made it more HTML5. Also updated next example to it doesn't have a name and indicates a name can be added using approaches above.
... Big change is in procedure. All input except type hidden and textarea and button select element check to make sure it has a programmatically determinable name. Order follow accessible name calculation. Includes label, title, aria-label, etc.

<jamesn> I think you need to exclude submit and reset too

awk: Changes technique about a specific edge case to one about accessible names.

james: exclude submit and reset as well as they default to valid labels.


awk: Could go either way on the submit and reset.

khs: Is there any way we would want to talk about associating this with the accessible name. If there are other ways in the future that would give this more legs?

awk: Do you mean update description to say these are ways in the accessible name calculation?

khs: Yes. The point isn't about these ways but about the name calculation.
... this mapping provides a programmatic determination. Mention in description is different from procedure.
... want to provide details on background on accessible name calculation.

<Kathy> scribe: Kathy

awk: changes include adding in submit and reset buttons

james: image button default to submit as well, doesn't make sense to include

<Joshue> Updated response to 2961 at https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2961

awk: doesn't mean that someone shouldn't add other text

james: should match what is on the screen

awk: also add acessbile name calculation
... do people feel comfortable with these changes to accept?

<AWK> ACTION: AWK to change F68 proposal to add submit and reset button exclusions and add accessible name calc to the description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-289 - Change f68 proposal to add submit and reset button exclusions and add accessible name calc to the description [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-10-28].

<AWK> RESOLUTION: Accept as amended pending ACTION-289

3. Mobile TF proposed changes to G53:Identifying the purpose of a link using link text combined with the text of the enclosing sentence

awk: we have 10 accept and 2 proposed edits
... change user agent and assistive technolgy notes
... change In addition, certain mobile devices to In addition, certain AT on certain mobile devices

Katie: wondering about Windows mobile OS narrator and window eyes

awk: david accepts changes but thinks this may get deprecated
... anyone object to accepting as amended

RESOLUTION: accept as amended

<Joshue> -q

Mobile TF proposed changes to G60:Playing a sound that turns off automatically within three seconds

<Joshue> +q to say update to 2961 ready

awk: changes are in the description
... goes through comments in survey
... general thought it that it is not an accessibility issue

kw: general discussion was to talk about benefits of the technique for users in other situations

<jamesn> +1 to NOT adding it

awk: not specific to accessibility issue

<AWK> ISSUE: WCAG group should look at expanding G60 beyond just screen reader user impact

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-41 - Wcag group should look at expanding g60 beyond just screen reader user impact. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/41/edit>.

kw: no objections to taking it out but would like to have this technique updated to include other types of disabilities other than screen readers

RESOLUTIONS: reject change

<Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say update to 2961 ready

[LC-2961 UPDATED] Remove example 1 from ARIA7

<Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2961

josh - comment updated

awk: any chance that aria-labelledby will be read twice, will there be a loop

james: not according to the ARIA spec

awk: if there are any variations to the user agent support we can update the notes

RESOLUTION: accepted as amended

Mobile TF proposed changes to G61:Presenting repeated components in the same relative order each time they appear

awk: these edits are around responsive design
... changes in description and to examples
... Andrew goes through survey comments
... the first addition to the example could be in a separate example

michael: didn

t object but it is bending the technique

michael: stands out too much in this technique

awk: didn't feel that it was too strong, if there were a lot of examples then a separate technique may be needed

josh: suggest text update in survey
... should we change to viewport

<Joshue> JOC: Don't mind really, was just wondering if it was a term in common use amongst RWD people.

RESOLUTION: accept as proposed

<AWK> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: AWK to change F68 proposal to add submit and reset button exclusions and add accessible name calc to the description [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Jon to update LC-2961/ARIA7 response if Josh doesn't get it done during the call [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.138 (CVS log)
$Date: 2014-10-21 16:34:39 $

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Found Scribe: jon_avila
Inferring ScribeNick: jon_avila
Found Scribe: Kathy
Inferring ScribeNick: Kathy
Scribes: jon_avila, Kathy
ScribeNicks: jon_avila, Kathy
Default Present: Joshue, Michael_Cooper, AWK, Kenny, Kathy_Wahlbin, EricE, Bruce_Bailey, Marc_Johlic, jon_avila, loretta, +1.512.276.aaaa, Brent, Katie_Haritos-Shea, James_Nurthen
Present: Joshue Michael_Cooper AWK Kenny Kathy_Wahlbin EricE Bruce_Bailey Marc_Johlic jon_avila loretta +1.512.276.aaaa Brent Katie_Haritos-Shea James_Nurthen
Regrets: David_MacDonald Alistair_Garrison Barry Christophe David
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014OctDec/0062.html
Found Date: 21 Oct 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/10/21-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: awk jon

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