See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 25 September 2014
<paulc> On a very bad hotel wireless connection. Staying on mute.
<David> scribe: David
TPAC... no news that's new, made progress... expect to be done soon
<paulc> okay re TPAC plans
JA: hotel sold out... w3c block gone, more expensive for others
JS: nearby hotels *may* have
better rates.
... W3C requests anyone moving hotels who is in w3C block, let
us know so we can get them back in the block
<paulc> Are there rooms at higher rates at the Marriott?
<liam> [yes]
Into the 300$ range outside the block
JS: no news ... waiting from director's offioce
JS: alt note
C of C, objection to closing work as longdesc moves towards status... i'm concerned we'd have to reopen it, assuming longdesc not stopped by FO
noting about the note status blocking any other rec... is there good reason to push it forward now...
LIUM: i filed bugs that there are use cases that should have Longdesc... bad to publish as is, until longdesc resolved
<JF> +1 for inclusion of @longdesc
<paulc> Would an alternative plan be to publish a heartbeat of this document and then to publish a WG Note later after updating to include a reference to longdesc.
CM: not worried about publishing and reopeing, but we should wait for directors decision, and update if director approves longdesc
JB: agree
<paulc> The latest info on the TR page is http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-alt-techniques-20121025/
JB: concerned it looks like comprehensive spec, but doesn't some kinds of complex images, which could be represented in the document... so agree to wait for director
PC: could publish as heartbeat... it's approaching 2nd anniversary so needs some movement
<ShaneM> +1 to push a heartbeat.
PC: editors can publish heartbeat without permission
JB: agree, but let's wait for decision... might just a few tweaks be needed or large revision, let's consider HB after we're not guessing
<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to suggest a heartbeat makes sense
CM: HB makes a lot of sense, and hopefully have it fixed and ready
JS: not a note yet because needs to be perfected... are we stirring the pot with a HB...
JB: i'm ok with a heartbeat... but not as a note
<paulc> Someone should file a bug for the "image description problems" and then the SOTD can point to the outstanding bugs
JB: if we do a HB, we'd need to publish our concerns that some might be changed soon, and that there might be other image types not included
CM: I think we should publish HB
<paulc> There are a LOT of changes in the document that is very different that the 2012 WD.
<Zakim> liam, you wanted to prefer not to do a heartbeat until after the FO
Liam: don't want to publish without clear statement about the status of longdesc
<paulc> Remember that we had Formal Objections about this document being on Recommendation Track that were withdrawn.
<JF> +1 to support Liam's point
PC: simple rule, publish early
and often
... we had formal Obj on this going to rec track...
... it's much better than what we have now
<janina> acl p
<JF> +Q
John: Normally agree with PC, but this is so religious, about longdesc, we should hold
JS: how about HB in early october
JS: it is going on... just noting it
JS: invitation to participate in discussion on WG list
JS: i don't have summary of various conversation to 5.1 items... been busy with PF... '
<MarkS> scribe: MarkS
DM: I would like to see progress
on dealing with footnotes, navigation to and from the
reference
... difficult to do for screen reader users.
... there are arguments against it i.e. we already have links
to handle this.
... this is also relevant to ePub
JS: have you looked at ePub's
handling of footnotes?
... also, what specifically is the problem for screen reader
uses? is there overlap with other users?
... there is a problem if the beginning and end of the note is
not clearly delineated with markup
<Zakim> liam, you wanted to note that there has been footnote conversations in digital publishing IG and in CSS, some similarities with longdesc
<JF> +Q
LQ: two kinds of issues with
footnotes that are not satisfied with just links. A sighted
user can see at a glance if its a bibliographic reference, or
substantive
... ebooks are struggling with this
... nice to have on the same page if the room is there, and
there are no flow issues
... in ebook readers, ePub, there will need to be a way of
marking what type of footnote it is
... a role attribute on an aside element, or some other
solution
JS: so there is lack of support for good handling in HTML5, if ePub formally adopts HTML5 as a solution
LQ: also for those who use HTML5 CSS in their print publishing workflow
JF: we deal with footnotes a lot. some people use special characters to mark a note, double arrows for instance.
<liam> [CSS already has asterisk, dagger, obelisk, section mark, double bar counting sequence]
JF: also multiple links to a
single footnote. makes it hard to return back to where you
originally referenced the footnote
... was it the first, second or third reference
... the formal structure of legal documents make it very
difficult to solve this issue creatively
DM: john and and I can brainstorm more on this
JS: this isn't just an
accessibility thing. I think we need to involve others in
addressing this issue. This would be good for TPAC, ePub will
be there and will be meeting with PF to talk about
accessibility
... sounds like this should be taken up by us, HTML WG and
ePub. TPAC would be ideal
<JF> +Q
JF: so david and I should get together and put together a discussion paper to kickoff a discussion at TPAC
JS: that would be very valuable
<David> phone
JF: we have a good idea what the issues are so I don't think it will take us long to do
<David> JS: Thanks David for the suggestion, David and John will get together to present discussion paper on footnotes
http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Canvas_Task_Force/CR-Test
<David> MS: Rich drew up a paper, I've written test for 12 issues
<David> MS: we'll have more for you next week, the is a new meeting time for the canvas, TF, Friday 3pm eastern
<David> JS: other business. media subteam needs to get together, have comments, and Expect nore for WAI EO
<David> ws/nore/more
<David> 10EST monday, will meet to discuss comments, will put out notice...
<David> next week Shane will Scribe
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