Research and Development Working Group Teleconference

Update on reports from symposia

shadi: metrics note is still in discussion with the editors
... getting some comments from Judy so no progress this week
... mobile note, we received an update
... I'll look at next steps and for me to get an editorial process in place
... same with user modeling for a11y - congrats to the editors
... I received a version last week and will be going through it editorially
... will send a version back to the editors for review and then to the group
... text customization not received
... things look good overall though alignment may need some work, like how citations are done etc.
... sound ok?

yehya: yes, comment on response document - will clean it up and send back

shadi: that was really good, so commentors will see how comments addressed
... user modeling for a11y is online

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2013/user-modeling/note/ED-UM4A

shadi: my suggestion yehya and chrisots is to go through it editorial first

yehya: I think we agree to that

shadi: same peter for the mobile side

peter: ok

Symposium Status: Way-Finding (CfP due 7th Sept 2014 - http://goo.gl/QdSZRI)

<christos> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Accessible_Way-Finding_using_Web_Technologies_Online_Symposium_3_December_2014

shadi: let me have a look at that
... we need to do the cross referencing and cleaning
... let's look at the page christos put in (see link)
... what are people's reactions to this - mainly scope and objectives section
... have a look at background first

<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Background

yehya: I miss section references in the background

shadi: do we want references directly in the text?

yehya: some numbers in the text
... if I recall from other symposia the background always has references

christos: I think there is a difference between backgrounds in the call and main page of the symposium or final link

<shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2013/user-modeling/Overview.html#background

christos: I believe the references are mainly used int he background instead of the call for paper

shadi: for example (see link)
... the issue is it is sometimes more difficult to read

christos: I think we could put some links to places

yehya: I think it is ok
... I thought we had previously added links
... we can can stick to it as is without direct references in the call

shadi: one thing christos is to add a link to the wiki page

christos: there is a link at the end of the background
... the main page needs to be cleaned up

yehya: I was looking for indoor-navigation and I found it

+q

shadi: quite a long sentence
... fact that you missed it is an indication that that sentence was too long

chistos: I could change this into a list
... but I don't like the way that it would look

shadi: I'm just wondering if the second sentence is talking about the same thing
... you start talking about different types of applications
... I'm not sure if everybody understand what turn by turn navigation means
... lots of terms in there
... I'm wondering if the third part could be a separate sentence

christos: yes, I could break that out

shadi: at least 3-4 points in there

christos: ok

shadi: why are they showing problems? "Emerging applications.."

christos: the wording of problems is maybe not the correct one

shadi: I think you're trying to do 2 things in this sentence
... enumerate more domains and the statement that a lot of work needs to be done
... probably best to separate them
... I think that latter point - perhaps do it later on in the paragraph
... first bit to highlight the scope, different areas where way finding takes place
... and I'm thinking about, the way finding is the main term we plan to use - way finding includes..
... so what you'd do in the first paragraph is define/outline way finding and from there on just use the work way finding

christos: that's good, ok

Minor Typo wiki: /Although there are an incresing number/Although there are an increasing number/

<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Background

shadi: I think info in there is great.. and I can help you with the editing as well
... let's look back at the intro section

<shadi> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accessibility_and_way-finding,_navigation_and_exploration_systems#Introduction

shadi: intro is like a mini abstract and make sure the background and scope is all here, inviting..

test test

(oh ok sorry about)

shadi: question is what is an exploration system

christos: systems that allow you to see the surrounding area - I'm a tourist and I want to go to a restaurant that fits my preferences and I explore the area
... not a term that I see used to often

shadi: like location based services

christos: as you suggested we can use way-finding as the main term and describe it in more detail..
... I think we can keep way-finding as the main term..

shadi: ok, any other comments klaus

klaus: more related to background
... several researches and research and people working on annotations and points of interests related to this exploration
... a term that could raise the interest to researches working on that domain

christos: .. annotations for places is also included as a term there

shadi: you could think about christos, so the second sentence you start describing navigation systems
... you could have one sentence that talks about navigations sytems
... then have a sub type about indoor explorations
... then have travel types and so on..
... by breaking up that second sentence and explaining each term, could actually work

christos: I can do that

yehya: last sentence - when you read the background it's stating many problems with such systems - perhaps put in the gaols to talk about the problems that exist

christos: yes, I think the sentence tries to introduce the two main challenges..
... I don't know if I understand yehya's comment

yehya: I meant in the background you are telling that disabled persons are having a lot of problems with way-finding systems
... it may be good to have in the goals to include not on the needs but also the problems

christos: ok I can change the wording

shadi: again, I think you could split the last sentence in two
... first sentence is the gaol
... the second is the scope

christos: ok

shadi: confirms goal
... explore what are the needs of needs and challenges of existing..
... does scope reflect goal - 2min reading break
... ok reactions

yehya: it covers what has been said in the intro and background - nice worded

peter: agree with yehya

klaus: +1

shadi: I think this spans the scope nicely.
... if you look at data centre and technologies and describes them - so it gives me a bit of a taste
... with the UI I'm missing that - I think this is just tweaking
... maybe - haptic feedback.. audio .. and all the different kinds of UIs and information highly mapping visiual..

christos: I can include more info about haptic feedback, notifcations,..

shadi: just a little, not too much - in the other's you do it nicely

klaus: to the scope, going back to the intro - it highlights the user needs and missing understading
... this might also be reflected in the scope

shadi: right, and maybe as part of the UI - this where the user needs to come in

klaus: and also the data

shadi: right, you need the entire stack
... you could let the word user needs float in here and there in the descriptions
... and also the challenges with existing systems - so UIs scope is to explore how systems could address the needs and preferences uses such as haptic feedback and other formats..
... this way you combine the exploration and user needs and preferences into one goal

christos: yes it's ok - I see that we missed some key words

shadi: we need to link all the sections together
... at the end of the scope we list 4 submissions we particularly are looking for
... are we looking for more or should we remove any?

klaus: perhaps, term approaches could also use something like prototypes or solutions..

shadi: approaches and prototypes or demonstrations..

klaus: i'm not a fan of the term approaches..
... I think we are interested in new and crazy ideas

christos: we can change that - new approaches including prototypes..

shadi: I see the word approaches is also used in objectives - is approaches commonly used/understood?

yehya: I would at least add something to it like what klaus said

shadi: how about concepts and..

christos: is there anything that would not fit under concepts and solutions

<shadi> "concepts and solutions"

christos: concepts and solutions sounds even better

shadi: anything else under the scope secion?

klaus: one other thing of interest is about legislation and politics
... perhaps there are people working on this
... may go too far

christos: not sure if this introduces a new path in the scope..
... maybe we could include some related terms
... I don't know if we want to highligh/extend the scope

shadi: I wonder if we're scope creeping
... the objectives would be the more specific research questions

christos: we could include policy and legislation in one of the questions there - maybe in the 3rd or 4th bullet - probably the 3rd one

shadi: I think it may be better to have as a separate question to carefully scope it
... do we mean discrimination - if you're selling navigation that you should also include accessibility, or consumer protection

christos: the other thing, we have in the title accessible way-find.. the scope is how web tech relates to problems that way-finding systems
... I don't know if adding legislation will lead to a completely new path and out of scope discussions
... ok to include policy but not keep on words involving legislation..

shadi: I think policy and legislation is a major driver for a11y..
... for instance a lot of countries have info about making web sites a11y but is also providing a way-finding system to be able to find a class on university
... how do existing policies apply to existing technologies

(op I'm blocked from re-joining - sorry guys)

(could someone take over scribing?)

(will use skype in the future and not sketchy voip software :)

<shadi> KM: think alone the term "legislation" may be good to provoke ideas

<shadi> ...can still decide to accept or not

<shadi> christos: can try to play around with that