<trackbot> Date: 16 July 2014

<scribe> Scribe: Marcos

<scribe> scribenick: marcos_home

<bogdanovichiy> ok thanks

<schuki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0026.html

OMA liaison statement

<ArtB> head of OMA liaison thread

schuki: can you give us a bit of background about the OMA and the liaison

?

dom: sure. We have an relationship with the OMA where they sometimes send us APIs and various documents to review. They've been creating guidelines for API creation - and were informing us of their work to see if there was any chance for collaboration + for review.

<schuki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/thread.html

<mbaker> 15 years more like :)

schuki: there was some feedback, but Mark Baker raised some concerns about the APIs being "RESTful"

<schuki> webrtc: http://technical.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/technical-information/release-program/current-releases/rest_netapi_webrtcsignaling_v1_0

<dom> OMA API Inventory (grouped by protocol binding)

mbaker: I used to collaborate with the OMA when they were WAP helping them understand the web. I looked at the work that they were doing and at a random set of their APIs. They have structured the APIs in such a way that you replace bits of URIs. My concern is that the approach is not particularly RESTful.

<dka> 1. Is there something we can suggest back to them?

<schuki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0023.html

<dka> 2. (with respect) is it not true that the definition of REST APIs has become somewhat fuzzy?

schuki: so, then Brian responded ^^^ saying what they were trying to achieve.

<mbaker> hey!

dka: 1. Is there something we can suggest back to them?

<ArtB> +1 to DKA re providing some constructive details to OMA

<ArtB> I wonder if Mark would be willing to take such an action, or perhaps the TAG could reply?

<mbaker> i'd be happy to art

<ArtB> awesome mbaker!

dka: my interest is from an architectural standpoint (being from the TAG). What can we suggest to them in constructive manner in regards to REST? Is that not a kind of narrow def. of REST?
... I do wonder if the general use of the word REST has expanded in the last few years - with regards to URL structures, etc? That's my sense.

mbaker: sure, it the term has expanded a bit. Yes, there has been some drift with regards to what REST is in the wider community - but the REST community is trying to help by bringing it back to Roy's dissertation. This does mean that everything needs to be done with REST - but REST as per Roy's dissertation has a fairly strict meaning.

<ArtB> in the broader context of the IoT/WoT, it seems like it would be important for OMA to make sure it's Service and Enabler APIs are consistent with the `rest of the Web`. As such, guidelines and advice from W3C seems appropritate

<Zakim> dom, you wanted to avoid the architectural debate and instead understand how different architectural decisions would help OMA / the Web on mobile networks

dka: that sounds like a good way forward. I would like to involve the TAG. We have a TAG F2F coming up next week so we can add it to the agenda.

<mbaker> wfm. the TAG hasn't yet decided the role of REST in Web architecture

<dom> dom: we should note the terminology question

<dom> ... but we shouldn't stop to it

<dom> ... we should see if proper RESTful design would help OMA achieve its goals with its APIS

<dka> To dom’s point - this should be about the Web, and if it is then it means the APIs being described should be available on the Web, not just in closed networks…

<ArtB> I agree with Dom, that guidance, recommendations and such here will benefit other communities besides OMA

<dom> ... and probably only do so if we feel that these APIs are important to the Web on mobil

<dka> that could be a feedback point from webmob...

schuki: I think Dan's suggestion is good. It might be good to wait to for the TAG to have their F2F. We should provide feedback after that.

<mbaker> +1 to dom, art

dom: what we requesting feedback on is how to create RESTful APIs for the Web
... I think there were several good points raised - but it would be good if we could send specific feedback to them

schuki: I can put something together

<mbaker> lol

<dka> Would someone be willing to join the TAG meeting by phone next week to talk about this? Marcos?

I'm on vacation next week, dka

<dom> ACTION: Natasha to write up summary of OMA discussions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Write up summary of oma discussions [on Natasha Rooney - due 2014-07-23].

schuki: I might be able to join

<dom> ACTION: DKA to bring RESTful APIs discussion to TAG agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-104 - Bring restful apis discussion to tag agenda [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2014-07-23].

<dom> ACTION: baker to provide more detailed analysis of OMA APIs and RESTful design [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Error finding 'baker'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Mobile/IG/track/users>.

schuki: thanks to Mark for joining!

<mbaker> good to hear so many familiar voices again :)

wake lock use cases

<schuki> marcos_home: we started work about a month ago

<schuki> ... last few weeks it's getting towards being doing

<schuki> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/wake-lock-use-cases

repo^^

http://w3c-webmob.github.io/wake-lock-use-cases/

<schuki> marcos_home: that's the repo

<schuki> marcos_home: and the document

<schuki> marcos_home: i took the stuff dom started on - looking at apis on other platforms

<schuki> ... we gathered a set of apps which exemplified this behaviour

<schuki> ... an interesting one that needed this was google cardboard - so they're hacking around this with video elements to get this

<schuki> marcos_home: lots of contributors including google

<schuki> ... need a few more use cases

<dom> [whatwg] Proposal: Wake Lock API

<schuki> marcos_home: we're now ready to make an api out of this

<schuki> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/web-api-gap

https://github.com/w3c/screen-wake/pull/9

<schuki> marcos_home: we have been capturing the progress of the discussions re next steps

<dom> dom: how do you envision the next steps?

<schuki> marcos_home: ilya proposed an api, i changed it, so we'll keep revise it based on these discussions

<schuki> ... moz have an implementation, slightly different in ffos

<bogdanovichiy> sorry, connection problems, I’ll stay on irc

<schuki> ... not sure how long it will take, depends a little on dap

marcos_home: we can publish it when Dom and I are back from vacation.

DAMMIT!!!!

<Zakim> dom, you wanted to SysApps vs DAP

<dom> Dom: Sysapps has been created to host APIs that can't fit in the current Web security model; the Wake Lock APi seems to be a good fit for the current security model, hence DAP

Service Workers

<schuki> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorkersDemos

schuki: we have the SW demos repo ^^^ - which has some apps we would like to build. So, even though the implementations are still not quite there, it's possible to get started on those.
... basically, if someone has build something they would like to share - please send it to us

<schuki> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/serviceworker.org

<dka> Of note to the group: http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/promoting-modern-websites-for-modern.html - “Starting today, we will indicate to searchers when our algorithms detect pages that may not work on their devices.”

schuki: with the interest in SWs, there has been a lot of info on the Web. So we've started a repo to bring everything into one place.

<tobie> Website is here: http://www.serviceworker.org/

<tobie> This is not ready for public consumption atm.

schuki: thanks to Tobie for getting this started. The folks from FT labs also started a similar service (serviceworker.io)
... right now, we are trying to work out how to serve everything over HTTPs, etc.
... currently, looking for hints + tips about debugging SWs

tobie: I talked with the FT labs together and we are probably going to merge the .org and the .io sites.

<dka> +1

heh

schuki: do you have any update from the Moz side?

tobie: waiting for the cache API to stabilize, I think
... mozilla and google have the whole SW side of things working... but without the cache
... if you have issues, please let us know on GitHub

dka: there was some discussions on twitter on implementing appcache (with fixes) with ServiceWorker.
... There was the opinion that AppCache is pretty good... and could be tweaked to be fit for purpose. And if AppCache could be implemented with SWs. It seems to me like an easy win if AppCache could be implemented and fixed through SWs.

<dka> (and as usual all this discussion is just somewhere on twitter rather than anywhere that can be easilly found…)

tobie: it's a reasonable request. The problem with appcache is that there is a lot of magic going on under the hood. It would be fine for simple examples - but then the question remains "what is the point?"

+q

tobie: would be good to break up the API into it's component parts when explaining it. E.g., the cache, how fetch works, etc. Having good docs that breaks up the different components, etc. should make this API more palatable.
... I don't think people are going create AppCache-like declarative solutions as they are not very compelling. There are more interesting things that can be made with the API

AOB

<schuki> http://www.w3.org/2014/07/permissions/

<dom> https://github.com/dontcallmedom/web-permissions-req/

<schuki> http://www.w3.org/2014/05/wp-trust-permissions/

<dom> Dave introducing his paper to SysApps

schuki: we had a breakout call about permissions. Dave Raggett told us about the workshop that is happening in Sep. Dom gave us and overview of work he had been doing. Dave also pointed us to the paper on the topic he had been working on.

<schuki> https://github.com/w3c-webmob/identity/blob/master/README.md

<schuki> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/webcrypto-next-workshop/Overview.html

schuki: Identity - we are still trying to gather use cases and reqs around this topic. The Web Crypto group is interested in this topic and have asked us to provide some.
... ... some use cases and requirements.
... if you have any ideas for additional breakout calls. Please let us know.

<dom> https://github.com/dontcallmedom/web-bluetooth

<Zakim> dom, you wanted to mention bluetooth work

dom: I've been looking at the link between bluetooth and web apps. Hopefully I'll do a bit more research on it in Aug. Looking at how the web platform could benefit from accessing BlueTooth.

schuki: our next call will be in Aug.

<schuki> thanks all!

trackbot, make minutes public

<trackbot> Sorry, marcos_home, I don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes public'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

trackbot, end meeting

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/it's APIs/it's Service and Enabler APIs/
Succeeded: s/dka/schuki/
Succeeded: s/DOM/Dom/
Found Scribe: Marcos
Found ScribeNick: marcos_home
Default Present: +1.905.873.aaaa, +1.717.553.aabb, dom, [IPcaller], +1.857.300.aacc, ArtB, ianmaffett, mbaker, tobie, kawada, +1.908.559.aadd, +44.773.051.aaee, dansun, dka, Ilya, wuwei
Present: +1.905.873.aaaa +1.717.553.aabb dom [IPcaller] +1.857.300.aacc ArtB ianmaffett mbaker tobie kawada +1.908.559.aadd +44.773.051.aaee dansun dka Ilya wuwei
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Jul/0026.html
Found Date: 16 Jul 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/07/16-webmob-minutes.html
People with action items: baker dka natasha

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
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