<Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this

<KateDeibel> P18 is KateDeibel

<JohnRochford> I am hearing a significant echo.

<Susann_Keohane> me too

<JohnRochford> No more echo.

<Susann_Keohane> zakin, +1.512.445.5989 is Susann Keohane

<neilmilliken> running a few mins late due to public transport

<neilmilliken> will dial in shortly

<Tony_Doran> significant call degradation happening

<Tony_Doran> is this just me?

<JohnRochford> Echo again

<Tony_Doran> echo and degradation

<Tony_Doran> Yes!

<Tony_Doran> very bad breakup

<KateDeibel> i just switched to headset mike

all ok here

<Tony_Doran> Ok will rejoin

<Tony_Doran> stuck on voip though :(

<scribe> scribe: allanj

<Lisa_Seeman> scribe: allanj

<Liddy> problem with line

preview agenda

<Tony_Doran> Just rejoined

<Liddy> Liddy just joined

<Tony_Doran> seems better :)

<Tony_Doran> Nope - gone to pot again. Will stick it out

set scribe

open item 3

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/actions/

dr: Down's review. going to send to Lisa. included 3 case studies. will put on wiki shortly after private review

close action-9

<trackbot> Closed action-9.

close action-4

<trackbot> Closed action-4.

<Lisa_Seeman> close action-4

<trackbot> Closed action-4.

<JohnRochford_> Action 4 should be removed, because Dr. Kinshuk is responsible for it, not I.

<trackbot> Error finding '4'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.

<Tony_Doran> call quality is awful here, only getting 50% of what is being said. Going to reconnect.

close item 3

open item 4

http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-UISecurity-20140318/

<Lisa_Seeman> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-UISecurity-20140318/

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014May/0028.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014May/0029.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Jun/0001.html

from Lisa: Specifically we should look at section 15

Implementation Considerations for Resource Authors

This section is non-normative.

When possible, resource authors SHOULD make use of violation reports and the unsafe attribute to apply additional security measures in the application or during back-end processing. Real-time measures in the application might include requiring completion of a CAPTCHA [CAPTCHA-Wikipedia] or responding to an out-of-band confirmation when the UI Security heuristic is triggered. Example...

scribe: back-end measures might include increasing a fraud risk score for individual actions that trigger or targets accounts/resources that frequently trigger UI Security heuristics. To be able to do this effectively, it is likely necessary to encode into the report-uri a unique identifier that can be correlated to the authenticated user and the action they are taking.

<JohnRochford_> background noise

<Lisa_Seeman> I would suggest changes to section 14 that,

<Lisa_Seeman> User agents SHOULD provide a means for the user to manually disable enforcement of the Input Protection Heuristic if it interferes with their chosen accessibility technologies.

<Lisa_Seeman> 1. SHOULD should be changed to MUST

<Lisa_Seeman> 2. Add a sentence that the mechanism for manually disable enforcement of the Input Protection Heuristic MUST be operable by assistive technolgies and by people with cognative disabilities who are able to understand the security risk.

<Lisa_Seeman> In section 14 I would add:

<Lisa_Seeman> 2. Mechanisms for CAPTCHA and user verification should included options for people with different disabilities, including cognitive disabilities, people with impaired visual and auditory discrimination skills and for different modalities. For example, if CAPTCHA or user verification require biometrics a choice should be offered of what biometrics to use, as people with different...

<Lisa_Seeman> ...disabilities may be precluded from one or more specific biometric mechanism.

jr: in Section 15 should focus on CAPTCHA, the rest of 15 is back end features, that users would not see

<ea> I agree with your comments

dr: +1 to jr comments

<neilmilliken_> 2 factor authenitcation

kd: 'real time measures' - there are new security measures that require time tokens, that can expire. folks may have issues with them

<neilmilliken_> its a real problem for me

<neilmilliken_> my bank has just rolled this out and I am now considering changing bank

<Tony_Doran> Agree on the captcha stuff

kd: the time limit can be very short, there is a need for alternative usage, timing, which window has the code
... can I remember the 6 digits, etc
... is that 'real time measure'?

ls: 2 step verification is a problem, as is a dependency on short-term memory

<Lisa_Seeman> add 2 step verification - time limit is problem, as is any dependency on short term memory or ability to copy accurately

close item 4

close item 2

open item 5

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/index.php?title=Good_and_bad_practices

<Tony_Doran> Captchas have issues with screen readers and mild visual impairment depending on implementation of captcha etc

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Section_3#Current_proposals

ls: document all practices. some are good for some groups and may conflict

<scribe> ACTION: lisa to contact webAim on their user studies on cognitive disabilities [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-coga-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Error finding 'lisa'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: lisa_S to contact webAim on their user studies on cognitive disabilities [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-coga-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Error finding 'lisa_S'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: lisa_Seeman to contact webAim on their user studies on cognitive disabilities [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-coga-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Error finding 'lisa_Seeman'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.

<scribe> ACTION: Seeman to contact webAim on their user studies on cognitive disabilities [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-coga-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Error finding 'Seeman'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/users>.

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=67703&public=1

<scribe> ACTION: Seeman to contact webAim on their user studies on cognitive disabilities [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-coga-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Contact webaim on their user studies on cognitive disabilities [on Lisa Seeman - due 2014-06-09].

<janina> akim, ??P12 is me

ls: need good practice for any user group, not that cross all of them.

<Tony_Doran> Have worked with Widgit

dr: interoperability between symbols, have been looking at symbols from different symbol sets (prc, widget, others)
... also sclera. have a voting system in symbols with arabic symbols. can show if you want - 4 symbol sets for the same word

<JohnRochford_> I would like to see that page with the symbol sets.

dr: important for AAC user
... PRC Prentke Romich Corp

<ea> http://access.ecs.soton.ac.uk/blog/symboldictionary/

<ea> This is a blog for the Arabic Symbol Dictionary Project

ls: ?colman instutute. when they design page for folks with Cog. don't use title or alt.

ja: or have UA provide a switch to turn off title and alt to prevent distraction

<ea> The Mencap web site has alt tags so it would be interesting if they know about this research http://www.mencap.org.uk/

ls: idioms, metaphors are also issues, perhaps an abbr tag with a translation into "english"

<ea> Interestingly many of your points were ones we found useful for localisation projects - different languages and cultures. http://localisation.atbar.org/

ls: standard design metaphors are easier to use.

jr: curious...core set of guidelines for all cogdis, then branch out?

kd: huge crossovers, dyslexia, acquired dyslexia, aphasia

<Tony_Doran> Agree with idioms, metaphors. Anything where meaning is abstracted

ls: loss of data because session ended is a cross over for all cogdis

justification is also an issue for other languages (RTL, LTR, vertical), and spacing

content differences are also important

ls: localization crossover with cogdis.

localization can impact on design, languages with long sentence length, and white space on page

jr: need a core set

<ea> We have ATbar that does what the toolbar on the BDA site does and as you say you only load it when you want it.

kd: dyslexia sites - text presentation - foreground/background color size. have a setting for the site, but not widgets on every page

<JohnRochford_> Follow-up: I'm suggesting we develop a core set of guidelines for all people with cognitive disabilities, then branch out with guidelines specific to disability and to localization.

<ea> atbar.org

<ea> sorry https://www.atbar.org/

ja: infinite scroll is an issue for everyone

ls: add scroll issues to the list

there is also Option overload, presenting all the fonts, or all the colors

scribe: color overlays for stress syndrome...only 8 choices

<neilmilliken_> I agree with option overload in theory but I really dislike all 8 choices

<KateDeibel> -q

<Tony_Doran> is ATBar windows only?

nm: agree with limiting choice, but choice must be palatable. no answer - but user still needs override

<ea> aah but doesn't the research say you get used to your mint green colour Neil and then you need to change it because the brain gets used to it!!! ;>))

<ea> I agree as well personal preferences win my vote!

ATBar is cross browser plugin not windows

<Tony_Doran> Thanks!

<ea> I am not sure exactly what I have been tasked to do - sorry!

<ea> Did you give each of us a user group

ls: need more ideas, so we can test

jr: ideas? based on research or real experience

ls: any
... gather, document, test

ja: send to the list?

ls: talking with kids with Autism...

nm: what are things that prevent you from doing a task
... what things do you avoid doing on the web?
... avoidance is as important as they do

ls: started using travel agent again...websites are too difficult/painful
... data loss is annoying

ea: when I joined, was assigned to a group. are we to look for ideas for a particular group?

ls: any ideas for any grou

ea: this is huge
... need a frame work for creating ideas

jr: agree, what's the mechanism for dumping ideas?

<JohnRochford_> yes

ls: this brainstorming. don't want to restrict flow. do we need a mechanism.

ea: teach web a11y, have massive amounts of info to provide to taskforce
... for each element, need research, to document.
... perhaps divide into groups and find ideas for ...
... are we categorizing by disability, functionality, others

ja: prefer functionality

ea: looking for direction, how do you want it done

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/index.php?title=Good_and_bad_practices&action=submit

ea: where is the structure, what is the link, where can I fill in the gaps

<Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Section_3#Current_proposals

<ea> Thank you

ls: flat design, boundaries for clickable items
... hearing that Practice page is too broad. perhaps sub-headings (layouts, design paradigms, using symbols)

ea: functionality vs disability to list the ideas

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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/15should/15 should/
Succeeded: s/Prenke/Prentke/
Found Scribe: allanj
Found Scribe: allanj
Inferring ScribeNick: allanj

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: Debra_Ruh EA Follow-up IPcaller Jim_Allan JohnRochford JohnRochford_ KateDeibel Liddy Liddy_Nevile Lisa_Seeman MichaelC P12 P13 P18 P2 P3 P9 Susann_Keohane Suzann_Keohane Tim Tim_Boland Tony_Doran aaaa dr https inserted ja janina jr kd ls neil neilmilliken neilmilliken_ nm slee trackbot
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
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Regrets: Deborah_Dahl Steve_Lee

WARNING: No meeting title found!
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Got date from IRC log name: 02 Jun 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/06/02-coga-minutes.html
People with action items: lisa lisa_s lisa_seeman seeman