Approving minutes

mgylling: Any objections?

RESOLUTION: minutes of last week are approved

Participation of content & mark-up TF

mgylling: TFs focus on one topic at a time.
... Current for this TF is structural semantics inflection.
... Recap:
... Try to figure out how to do inflection of domain-specific structural semantics in HTML5.
... EPUB uses epub:type namespaced attribute.
... Want attribute to be serializing-agnostic, i.e., good for both HTML and XML.
... Work with ARIA.
... I think we want to produce use-cases for semantic inflection.
... I haven't had time to start on it.
... We should try to describe our options:
... Different approaches: epub:type, ITS-inspired attributes (with a hyphen).
... Hyphen instead of namespace makes a difference in HTML5.
... Industry uses data-* attributes already. Class attribute also.
... But data-* is not really recommended for spec extensions.
... So there are various approaches and we get questions why we don't do this or don't do that.

<ivan> +1 to the summary

mgylling: Need a summary of pros and cons.
... Thus help the publishing industry.
... So: 1) use cases and 2) source mapping.
... Is this too slow?
... Given that we have a liason with PF already, via Richard Schwerdtfeger.

tzviya: Some approaches "work" but shouldn't be used.

ivan: The summary means to list the issues and discussions.

<liza> :)

ivan: We should also add RDFa vs microdata.

mgylling: It's a long list of options...
... Twofold approach: 1st work on ARIA role attribute and make it applicable for us.
... Rich said changes are needed, wrt. treating unknown values.
... PF also intends to work on sub-modules for ARIA roles.
... E.g., for SVG.
... And also for book structure semantics.
... Who can work on that?
... Comments?
... Wrt. wiki activity: we need help.
... I.e., provide use cases and list options.
... Who wants to work with us on that over next 2-3 weeks?

<ivan> FYI: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/draft-pfwg-charter is the upcoming charter of the PF WG

ivan: For me those weeks are difficult.
... After that I'd be happy to contribute.
... (Travel to workshop and then to Korea.)
... But I want to contribute, or get info from my colleagues.

tzviya: Dave or Paul, since you did some work, are you interested?

dave: Yes.

<liza> Hooray

mgylling: So: me, tzviya and dave in charge of the TF wiki.
... Comparison table could do with help from Robin.
... We want EPUB to pick the right options.

ivan: The reasons why we think multi-serializing is necessary, we will get questions about that and what's wrong wity epub:type.

mgylling: We can list pros and cons in the comparison table.

ivan: And also: microformats-style, using class attribute, will also be asked about. Controversial issue.

mgylling: We try to move quickly, because epub:type and clas attribute both have issues.

ivan: Documenting that and having a reference for the future is important.

tzviya: Is the document going to describe why this vocabulary is necessary at all? Some people would say HTML is perfect...

ivan: Half of it will be a version of the use cases. The other half is technical stuff.

mgylling: List of names of people wishing to join PF to work with them.

ivan: They have to be members, because Invited Experts here are only IE in DPUB.

<tzviya> I'm working on it :)

dave: I can look into it.

ivan: You're a member (Pearson), so no problem.

<liza> Thanks Pearson!

mgylling: Anybody else?

ivan: OK to start on wiki. Do we want to publish a document later?

mgylling: Like a Note? Yes, probably.

ivan: I agree that would be good. At what point do we move the document to github? Don't wait too long, becauseit gets harder to transform.
... Ping me and I'll set it up.

<tmichel> http://www.w3.org/2013/02/digpubig.html#deliverables

Deliverable "A comprehensive and prioritized list..."

<mgylling> A comprehensive and prioritized list of W3C specifications that are important for the Digital Publishing industry but are still in an unstable state at the W3C, as well as their current state in the process. The goal of this deliverable is to help the Digital Publishing industry, as well as the different specification and standardization activities within that community, to be aware of the evolution of the W3C specifications, and to possibly adapt their

<mgylling> specifications accordingly.

mgylling: This is a cross-TF thing.
... Doesn't look so complicated. How do we go about producing this?
... One option is to start with a wiki and let the TF leads add listings.
... We should be more specifgic than CSS2/CSS3, but list specific modules.

ivan: Not all CSS modules are of interest.
... Add their status, ready for publication, ready to use, etc.
... A number of specs highly relevant but only WD still.

mgylling: OK, so add a status as well.
... Is a wiki the right approach?

Bill_Kasdorf: Yes, right way to start.
... On meta data work: all of these deliverables are directed at W3C WGs. Should we direct also at publishers?
... There's a lack of awareness of what's already there.

ivan: Example?

Bill_Kasdorf: Varies widely, based on publisher and how technical they are.
... Not many are aware of ARIA, RDFa. Schema.org is easier, but even that they often don't know.

ivan: In the table we'll have what's done and what's under devel.
... ARIA is in former category.
... For technologies that are already there, we can point at primers and introductory material.
... In a few cases W3C has such documents.
... For many that doesn't exist. And then the question is what documents are useful for that community.
... But we can look at what is useful info.

mgylling: So another extra column in the wiki: primer links
... As soon as we have sufficient content, we'll assign an editor.

ivan: We need to discuss: these documents tend to become outdated quickly.
... I know similar work in mobile area. One of my colleagues worked on a table.
... Mobile is a different world, but he has a mechanism to update it maybe every 6 months.
... So it is different from a Note.

mgylling: Yes, keeping as a wiki might also be doable. We start with a wiki anyway.

<ivan> Dominique’s table

mgylling: Who can start the wiki page?

ivan: Here [above] is the table I was referring to.
... Different from what we need, e.g., it has APIs.
... A number of things there are related to testing and deployment in browsers, also.
... Reading systems such as Readium are different.
... But still a good example of a table.

<tmichel> I can setup the wiki page

mgylling: So who can set up the wiki?
... Thierry will. Thanks!

<tmichel> Ok will add categories

AOB

mgylling: Q for Bill:
... I punted on your metadata date.
... How about next Monday?

Bill_Kasdorf: Next Monday is too soon, need to discuss with Madi first.

ivan: I'm not here in two weeks.

Bill_Kasdorf: 7 OK for me, 14 not...

ivan: 14th I'll be jetlagged.

Bill_Kasdorf: 14th probably doesn't work for me either.