Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference -- 24 Feb 2014

<trackbot> Date: 24 February 2014

<gcapiel> Za

<dauwhe_> scribenick: dauwhe

<mgylling> scribe: dauwhe_

<tzviya> I'm working from someone else's house so i'll have to be on mute for most of the time

mgylling: after calls on singular topics, time for summaries today.
... want next steps and timelines
... more concrete in getting to next steps in each efforts
... need to approve minutes
... comments on minutes?
... last weeks minutes are approved.
... were Jan. 27 minutes approved?

Ivan: no meeting last week

<tzviya> the 27 Jan minutes were not approved at last meeting

mgylling: it was two weeks ago
... minutes of january 27 still not approved
... markus has submitted corrections
... OK to approve?
... minutes are approved. Hooray!

Ivan: admin note: in two weeks, there will be a two-week period where Europe and US will differ on daylight savings time.
... calls will be at same time for US residents
... but will be one hour earlier for everyone in Europe
... I will send out an email to warn people of this change
... but expect chaos.
... UTC for W3C is irrelevant. Zero time is in Cambridge, US (our fair city).

mgylling: in agenda, lots of task forces. We'll go through one by one.
... summarize recent activity, near term plans, and timlines
... record commitments for next steps, which will vary by task force.
... starting with Dave and LatinReq

<mgylling> scribe: mgylling

Dave: not much recent activity, due to day job and big push on CSS side (CSS Paged Media). So things have been quiet on LatinReq.
... next step is to flesh out the drop caps section, will help ebook industry quite a bit
... Ben Ko has been working on table layout, but also limited due to day job. Not sure on his timing

Markus: what is needed to publish a public draft?

Dave: clear that this document is going to evolve, part of me thinks we can publish a draft at any time. Already used as referenced in CSSWG, to illustrate points. Would be nice to have a more official status
... thinks it falls under W3C WG draft at this point

Markus: astearns has been contributing about grids and stuff as well, but no recent discussion.

<dauwhe_> astearns: I've mostly been working on grids

<dauwhe_> ... but may not be able to contribute on adaptive layout for a while

<dshkolnik> I am

asterans: haven't done anything re adaptive layout, for now baseline grid, not sure when I will have time to contribute re adaptive. Maybe Dimitri has something to contribute?

<dauwhe_> ... Dimitry may be able to contribute, possibly

<dauwhe_> dshkolnik: don't yet have specific requirements

dshkolnik: trying to get information specific for magazine publishers, and frankly we don't see any specific requirements

<ivan> q later

<dauwhe_> mgylling: don't wait for adaptive layout info

<astearns> +1

<dauwhe_> ... we can evolve document in time

<Zakim> liam, you wanted to share notes about adaptive layout - content and constraints

<dauwhe_> Ivan: Liam firs

<dauwhe_> liam: did notes about adaptive layout when I did XSL-FO

<dauwhe_> ... the idea of alternate content

<dauwhe_> ... depending on space, use shorter chapter title in running head if full title doesn't fit

<dauwhe_> ... layout constraints, which has been discussed around regions

<dauwhe_> ... some region use cases are about adaptive layout

<dauwhe_> ... I'm happy to share my notes

<ivan> scribe: dauwhe_

dshkolnik: agree we should go forward and publish

mgylling: adaptive content and layout are siblings
... trying to make sure that the IG produces use cases that serve publisher's needs
... when would corpus of requirements for adaptive layout be needed by CSSWG for regions?

Ivan: for mechanics
... this would be our first published document
... publishing at W3C happens on Tuesdays and Thursdays
... before we do anything, Ivan will need to request an official short name, which is latinreq
... must officially register that shortname
... it's good that document is ready two=three days before pub date
... we can decide on time later
... I do not travel at all in March

<tmichel> I am also around for publication

Ivan: ReSpec handles most problems that come up

<tmichel> with respec we should be set ... validation and publication rules

mgylling: sounds good. Is your ambition to flesh out drop caps and table layout before pub?

dauwhe: I'll think about that.

mgylling: shall we move on? Any more questions about latinreq?

<azaroth> Static copy of Anno use cases: http://www.openannotation.org/usecases.html

mgylling: Rob with annotations

azaroth: been away recently
... there is a version of use cases posted at above link, 80% complete

<scribe> ... done with respec

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: still need some work
... talked with Ivan and Markus
... todo item is that short name needs to be changed
... to something like annotation use cases
... comments welcome
... we are moving ahead with various W3C efforts like workshop in April
... and discussing charter for Annotation WG

mgylling: time and next steps?
... 80% complete, once you reach 100%, when?

.azaroth: done by next week

Ivan: if you feel it's 100% we can publish at note
... usually we publish as Working Draft, asking for comments from community
... better to publish as WD to encourage comments
... in this case, try to publish together with latinreq, good that we publish several docs
... I think this can be done. So why not?
... keep on open annotation, or move to github?

azaroth: can live anywhere.

Ivan: prefer to put it on github
... makes it easier for others to contribute
... if it's outside GitHub, that may create future difficulties

azaroth: not a problem

mgylling: publishing a draft sounds good.

azaroth: +1

mgylling: no issues with charter?

Ivan: charter will be finalized after workshop.
... by time WG starts, probably be end of summer
... OK if it's a final note when WG starts.

mgylling: great.
... one more week to reach 100%
... Ivan wants both published simultaneously
... leads me back to Dave Cramer
... next Monday to decide? Is that possible?

dauwhe: ok to decide next monday.

mgylling: more questions on annotations?
... what's next? DOM pagination, with no leader
... discussed two weeks ago when I was not on the call
... others are better equipped to summarize

brady_duga: had action item to review use cases
... I'm only a week late; hopefully be next week

mgylling: you were looking for a task force lead. Any ideas yet?

brady_duga: don't remember who said what.

Ivan: Liza may ask someone at Oxford University, more to join the group than to find a chair

mgylling: use cases are reading-system-centric, should look at from content producer perspective

<tzviya> weren't we going to ask Random House for use cases?

mgylling: that's one motivation to reach out to Oxford
... not much more we can do with Pagination DOM today. Am I missing something? No
... moving on to Bill and Madi

Bill_Kasdorf: not an orphaned group, just a neglectful parent. EDUPUB and EPUB3 Test Suite have taken lots of time
... progress so far due to Ivan, who restructured wiki
... Ivan, Luc, and Phil have discussed issues on Wiki
... quick summary: fundamental existential question of whether this IG is the right place to discuss these issues
... consensus is that this is the right place
... start creating concrete use cases
... there are only two so far
... overarching issue is vocabulary
... I said that was slippery slope
... there are a kazillion vocabularies
... people dive into vocabularies too easily
... having a guide to vocabularies has positive support
... resources about resources: documents about all these vocabularies
... developing such a guide would be useful
... I'll be overseas next week, so won't be able to contribute for a while
... but after that trip, I'll have some time. Will make strong push
... tasks: 1. develop description of the "guide to vocabularies"
... 2. Add use cases

mgylling: 2nd half of march is when we expect you to ramp up?

Bill_Kasdorf: back on March 10.

mgylling: OK. Ivan and others, do you have any comments?

Ivan: what's important is to get more use cases from publishers.
... I can't do that.
... most earlier discussion is more on the technology side, rather thna the publisher side

Bill_Kasdorf: when I said use cases, it needs to be from publishers
... this particular group needs to take into account annotations and accessibility
... metadata is involved in both those areas
... if we come up with accessibility use cases, or annotations use cases, they should stay in those groups
... there will be overlap

Ivan: use cases may apply to several task forces

Bill_Kasdorf: don't want to duplicate effort

mgylling: do you want to devote a call to your task force?

Bill_Kasdorf: when's optimal time for that? Won't be ready by 10th. Maybe on the 17th?
... it's not a reporting as much an interactive session

mgylling: OK to record March 17 as call devoted to metadata task force?

Bill_Kasdorf: OK.

mgylling: done.
... any nore questions on metadata?
... moving on. Tzviya:

<tzviya> Zkim, unmute me

tzviya:

<azaroth> :)

tzviya: [having trouble spelling]
... Behavioural UI has suffered from group neglect
... haven't gotten very far
... how much broad interest is there in this area?
... i'd like to gauge how much interest there is
... not a lot of activity around the use cases

Ivan: my understanding based on SLC conversations
... play on the role attribute and how it's used in HTML
... joint work between IG and ARIA
... Rich is not here today
... we should get joint meeting with ARIA, what should be done, what can be done, how can this group help
... invite on that call co-chair of HTML working group

tzviya: that touches on an area we haven't discussed
... aria roles and epub:type are often for structural elements, chapter and preface
... being expanded for things that have behaviour like indexes
... our use cases mostly involve behavioural intent
... like when user wants to adjust font family
... but monospace code should not change fonts
... would ARIA help with this?
... there may be two parts: ARIA stuff and behavioural UI

Ivan: don't have an answer
... need to talk with ARIA people.
... ARIA was originally done for accessibility
... the usage of role may evolve beyond the original scope
... but we need to ask them

tzviya: OK

mgylling: the role attribute discussion is not the only thing going on there, but something we need to engage in
... your task force is the place to do this
... it might be about redesigning parts of epub to make more compliant with OWP
... perhaps meet with 1 or 2 of the editors, then HTML chairs

tzviya: I agree

Ivan: should I set up a Doodle?
... I need list of people who should be on the call?

mgylling: Ivan, Markus, Tzviya, Rich, Ted, Robin, Gerardo

gcapiel: we've been having parallel discussion about using ARIA roles in SVG

<mgylling> for doodle list also: Mark Hakkinen

gcapiel: we met at EDUPUB to talk about this; there's a wiki I can reference
... the same idea has application here
... I can attend the call, or can be represented by Rich

Ivan: I will put you on the list

mgylling: five minutes to go and lots of task forces to cover
... accessibility: next steps etc

gcapiel: Rich and I and Mark H. and shepazou had about alternative modalities
... right before christmas discussed with Daniel Weck about SMIL
... support for web platform ???
... some prior efforts that didn't go anywhere
... that's a big area that hasn't been covered
... on annotations
... added some stuff, will go deeper as I think about iAnnotate event
... we should loop in with Mark H re CSS speech use cases
... there is a spec, but browser support is weak

mgylling: meeting with Suzanne, and Sue Fowler
... three minutes to go

Jeank: Math is a poor red-headed step-orphan-child
... our use case count has not gone up
... we could find more
... we'd like more use cases from actual publisher
... I can solicit them, but I need to know which kinds of publishers
... journal or book?

<tzviya> +1 to liam

Jeank: probably get more from Journal publishers
... some stuff happening in Math and accessibility

<Bill_Kasdorf> Note that there is vastly more journal content online than book content, which is mainly EPUB etc.

Jeank: math should be accessible!
... need some time to get updated use cases, and then meet with accessibility group

mgylling: do you have a name of who you can work with re accesibility?

Jeank: I would start with gcapiel
... Design Science is also working on accessible math, which is good
... I have at least two sources to talk about accessible

tzviya: do you want examples from chemistry?
... CML is unsupported

Jeank: we've been using math for that

mgylling: concrete action item for Tzviya
... we should clarify scope here for deliverables
... same holds true for Tzviya's group
... focus on accessibility with Math and Chemistry is good
... any final comments or questions? Great. Thank you all.
... next week we'll push buttons to publish annotations and latinreq

<azaroth> Thanks all :)

<TomDN> bye

<tmichel> next meeting: next week

- DRAFT -

Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference

24 Feb 2014

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

Scribe.perl diagnostic output