Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

11 Feb 2014

See also: IRC log


Joshue, AWK, Barry_Johnson, Kathleen, Kathy_Wahlbin, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, David_MacDonald, [IPcaller]
Kerstin_Probiesch, James_Nurthen, Michel_Fitos, Peter, Thiessen
Kathy, AWK


<trackbot> Date: 11 February 2014

<Joshue108> CSUN update – meeting confirmed

<Kathy> scribe: Kathy

<BarryJohnson> Are there "Scribe" instructions?

<AWK> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

New Techniques: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140211misc/

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140211misc/results#x2670

New Technique: Using the track element to provide captions

Joshue - three comments

AWK: Worry that the procedure is saying that you do that and you meet the success criteria. We need to make sure that they have captions

Loretta: tried to capture the general requirements and this would be combined with how to do this in the specific technology

AWK: people going through the techniques people may not realize they need to look at the general technique as well.

Loretta: this information would be in the understanding doc and it would be an issue for other techniques as well

Joshue: accessibility of player controls is something we need to consider too

<AWK> Here's the How To Meet for 1.2.2: http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/#qr-media-equiv-captions

Loretta: the issue for the controls being accessible, we tried to separate the concerns because it gets complex

<Joshue108> s/we need to consider too

<Joshue108> 16:13/we may need to consider too

Loretta: may not be apparent that there are issues with HTML media element

AWK: may want to add an advisory note to remind people that they need to look at the captions and controls

Loretta: info is in the understanding document

<AWK> G87: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G87

Loretta: caption track is covered under G87

Joshue: is there anything that we can give that would provide guidance for specific information

Loretta: we can add to this technique

Joshue: test procedure is clear

David: In the new technique, we may want to add to the test procedure about timing and captions

Loretta: that would go into the general technique
... this is an "and"

<David_> +1

<Joshue108> +q

AWK: should people go to how to meet to find this information

Loretta: the group could reconsider

Joshue: we don't want people coming to the techniques to have to do alot of digging

AWK: for the tool support, there is user agent notes in the technique

Loretta: we could add information for polyfills

Joshue: have used this a bit, anyone else have experience in this

AWK: this is an area that is in rapid flux

Joshue: do you still need polyfills

David: there may be a simple way; for example, we could add information to the test procedure with link to the technique

Joshue: This is something that we will come back to

Loretta: we need to revisit the understanding document where there are multiple techniques and see if we want to cross reference etc

<AWK> ISSUE: we need to revisit the understanding document where there are multiple techniques and see if we want to cross reference etc

<trackbot> Created ISSUE-16 - We need to revisit the understanding document where there are multiple techniques and see if we want to cross reference etc. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/issues/16/edit>.

Joshue: this could help make the documents more accessible. This will make it more usable

AWK: the other item is a minor editorial

Loretta: that is a good edit

Joshue: the other comments we will come back when we talk about cross referencing

Loretta: we should keep audio description and captions separate

<AWK> I see it now: captions text tracks provide the dialogue and also include other sounds important to understanding the video. subtitles contain only the dialogue

Joshue: we should clarify the sentence "captions text tracks provide the dialogue and also include other sounds important to understanding the video"

Loretta: we can add that to the work list

<AWK> Change to: captions text tracks provide a text version of the dialogue and other sounds important to understanding the video. subtitles contain only the dialogue

<David_> include written record other sounds important to understanding

Joshue: make the change
... abou the line If other audio information is important to understanding the video, a subtitle track will not be sufficient to meet the success criteria." Does this relate to use of subtitles for audio description? If so, this may be better as " does this refer to audio information

Loretta: this technique refers to captions, but says that subtitles will not be sufficient

AWK: sound effects are not needed in subtitles

David: does North America have the same definition for subitles
... we should include definition

AWK: there is a note for that
... could refer to the WCAG glossary

<David_> Joshue can you describe AD as you understand it?

Joshue: any other comments?

RESOLUTION: accept as amended

New Technique: Using the track element to provide audio descriptions

CSUN update – meeting confirmed

New Techniques: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20140211misc/

Loretta: this is an advisory technique

Andrew: same conversation about impacting how to meet

AWK: how does this meet 1.2.1
... this is not providing the text alternative

Loretta: this is providing and audio description for the video

AWK: i agree

Joshue: Sailesh comment - this is advisory
... my comments, is audio description generally sythesized

Loretta: this is the first instance

Joshue: had a few editorial edits

<David_> yes that is becoming more popular... synthesized AD

Joshue: confused about 1.2.7

Loretta: can create the descriptions, but you may have a longer description that what fits in the gap.

Joshue: so you can extend the gap to make it fit

Loretta: yes
... could use ARIA live regions but not timed and there is no way pause

Joshue: clarify the language would help

<Joshue108> Note that it will be sufficient for 1.2.7 only if the user agent has the ability to stop the video to allow the extended audio description to fit

Joshue: what about this suggested text?

AWK: would this go into the status

Joshue: adding the word "fit" makes it clearer

AWK: it is in that status which means it is not in the technique. Does this need to be a note under applicability

Joshue: take a look at the WIKI under status

AWK: if we are approving the text, then we should put it in applicability

Joshue: if we approve then we will move to the applicability

<Loretta> I wonder if some IP has decided that I'm using too much bandwidth and decided to throttle me.

<Loretta> Welcome to the world of non-network-neutrality?

Joshue: do you agree with the changes?

<AWK> Note that it will be sufficient for 1.2.7 only if the user agent has the ability to pause the video to allow the extended audio description to play completely without overlapping other important audio in the primary program.

AWK: another option

<Ryladog> +1

David: likes the simplicity of AWK version

Joshue: like the indicator of the problem

<Loretta> am I still here? Lost skype again. :-(

Joshue: the second comment was more word smithing

Loretta: yes

Joshue: any objections
... hearing none, will make the edits
... last comment is on audio description cues
... should we add a bit about user experience

AWK: My change is in there now

Joshue: I suggest ignoring the last comment
... any objections

<BarryJohnson> No sounds good

RESOLUTION: accepted as amended

3. New Failure: Failure of SC 1.4.2

AWK: two bullets are almost the same

<David_> refresh ... I have a comment

Loretta: should this just be an example of F23 or should it be a separate failure

<AWK> F23: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F23

David: i agree with that

Joshue: yes sounds ok
... would be one less failure

AWK: if it is separate, it would capture a specific issue. Comes from the procedure which would be different from F23

Loretta: yes but it would get away from the wording issue

AWK: question about Why is the "muted" attribute a problem for 1.4.2?
... so this did not seem necessary in the procedure

Joshue: could be both, stand on its own or combine

David: if it stands on its own, advantage that people are thinking about playing sound so they may miss some details

Joshue: agree
... preference or objectives to keeping them separate

Loretta: no opinion

AWK: like them separate; enough details for it to be separate
... can we flip 4 & 5

David: suggested some language

<Ryladog> +1


Joshue: we will keep them separate

David: here is my comment

Perhaps make all the conditions of the test true... by making 4 and 5 like this

Check if the element is missing a muted attribute.

Check if a command or control to stop or pause the media element is missing.

Joshue: like the change and makes the expected results easier to parse


<Joshue108> +1

<Ryladog> +1

<Kathleen> +1

AWK: instead of saying "is missing" ... say "does not have"
... will edit the WIKI

Joshue: Kathleen had comment on failure example 1
... any objection to Kathleen's comment

<Ryladog> +1

Joshue: Andrew can you add the suggested text

<Joshue108> and because there does not appear to be any controls to allow the user to stop the video

Loretta: no objection to the text change

Joshue: my comments refer to the custom controls text

Loretta: that makes sense

<Ryladog> +1

Joshue: change is in the description


Joshue: also update the test procedure so the language mirrors the description

AWK: may be implied in this document

<Kathleen> LOL!

Joshue: just a suggestion
... David's suggestions have been added in the test procedure
... any objections?

RESOLUTION: accept as amended

CSUN update – meeting confirmed


AWK: we will have a face to face on Tuesday
... we have not picked the time
... are people planning other activities like the keynote

The keynote is a 6pm

AWK: 9-5
... we have logistics and agenda to figure out
... proposed agenda will be next week

Katie: question, will we still have the call?

AWK: we will have remote access by phone

Techniques planning and expectations for working group members

Techniques planning

Joshue: major need for techniques and for the working group to create techniques
... we divert some of our time to creating techniques
... encourage people to create techniques and contribute

David: government of Canada is on GitHub so they can create techniques

AWK: before you do that, we need to provide the struture and XML structure
... we need to get that in place first

Joshue: get the group up to speed on that

AWK: to add to the this, we have the outside group on the techniques task force but we need other techniques from mobile and congitive. Everyone should be working on and contributing to 3 techniques for each 6 month cycle.
... people will sign up for techniques
... we can connect people for the technical parts if people are not comfortable

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ToDo

<AWK> Kathy: make sure to invite the TFs to any training on technique writing.

<AWK> Scribe: AWK

LGR: the "toDo" page is a listing of proposed technique, some are assigned to people already
... there are many techniques claimed by a small number of people

<Joshue108> AWK: We need to structure this list a little better. We can mail people when its ready. Please just look at it, and make a note of what you are interested in.

<Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List

<BarryJohnson> Are there instructions on how to scribe and what steps are needed to capture all of the elements of the minutes?

<AWK_> Trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Default Present: Joshue, AWK, Barry_Johnson, Kathleen, Kathy_Wahlbin, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, David_MacDonald, [IPcaller]
Present: Joshue AWK Barry_Johnson Kathleen Kathy_Wahlbin Katie_Haritos-Shea Loretta Michael_Cooper Marc_Johlic David_MacDonald [IPcaller]
Regrets: Kerstin_Probiesch James_Nurthen Michel_Fitos Peter Thiessen
Found Date: 11 Feb 2014
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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